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	<title>Comments on: Truth, CitizenLink and &#8220;Reliable People&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: iLesbian.mobi &#187; Focus On The Family Lies Some more</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517/comment-page-1#comment-936</link>
		<dc:creator>iLesbian.mobi &#187; Focus On The Family Lies Some more</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 07:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517#comment-936</guid>
		<description>[...] who doesn&#039;t have the simplest ability to check her facts should reconsider her occupational choice. via Box Turtle Bulletin How a &#039;fourth tier&#039; religious law school infiltrated the US Government [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] who doesn&#8217;t have the simplest ability to check her facts should reconsider her occupational choice. via Box Turtle Bulletin How a &#8216;fourth tier&#8217; religious law school infiltrated the US Government [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Elaygee</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517/comment-page-1#comment-933</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaygee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 23:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517#comment-933</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s just stop calling it Christianity and just refer to it as the Jesus Mob or the Cosa de Nostra Cruces. Its just the Bonnano family with government approval and a tax exemption to boot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s just stop calling it Christianity and just refer to it as the Jesus Mob or the Cosa de Nostra Cruces. Its just the Bonnano family with government approval and a tax exemption to boot.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517/comment-page-1#comment-925</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 14:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517#comment-925</guid>
		<description>It seems rather chic these days for just about anyone to claim the name &quot;journalist,&quot; a term which has become a widely-used description for anyone engaged in wholesale propaganda. 

Just as anyone can claim their dedication to &quot;truth&quot; and &quot;accuracy&quot; is even more profound because they claim to be &quot;Christian,&quot; adherence to certain professional standards is what separates irresponsible reporting from wholesale manufacturing of the news. Mesko apparently happily falls into the category of manufacturing, not only staining the profession but managing to tarnish an entire religion as well. 

The inability of an &quot;associate editor&quot; to distinguish between wished opinion and supportable fact (characterized by references to unnamed people as attribution) would normally not meet any journalistic standards for publication. And Mesko&#039;s attempt to link &quot;Christian&quot; and &quot;journalist&quot; as if the two terms together arrogantly translates to some higher professional standard looks more like evidence that Mesko is likely unrelated to either of those terms. 

Which part of the &quot;Christian&quot; religion mandates deliberate lying?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems rather chic these days for just about anyone to claim the name &#8220;journalist,&#8221; a term which has become a widely-used description for anyone engaged in wholesale propaganda. </p>
<p>Just as anyone can claim their dedication to &#8220;truth&#8221; and &#8220;accuracy&#8221; is even more profound because they claim to be &#8220;Christian,&#8221; adherence to certain professional standards is what separates irresponsible reporting from wholesale manufacturing of the news. Mesko apparently happily falls into the category of manufacturing, not only staining the profession but managing to tarnish an entire religion as well. </p>
<p>The inability of an &#8220;associate editor&#8221; to distinguish between wished opinion and supportable fact (characterized by references to unnamed people as attribution) would normally not meet any journalistic standards for publication. And Mesko&#8217;s attempt to link &#8220;Christian&#8221; and &#8220;journalist&#8221; as if the two terms together arrogantly translates to some higher professional standard looks more like evidence that Mesko is likely unrelated to either of those terms. </p>
<p>Which part of the &#8220;Christian&#8221; religion mandates deliberate lying?</p>
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		<title>By: Truth Wins Out</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517/comment-page-1#comment-915</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth Wins Out</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 18:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517#comment-915</guid>
		<description>[...] town [from the Exodus ‘ex-gay’ conference] a counter-conference drew about 100 people.”  Jim Burroway and Ex-Gay Watch reported on the deliberate effort by Focus to lowball the attendance figures by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] town [from the Exodus ‘ex-gay’ conference] a counter-conference drew about 100 people.”  Jim Burroway and Ex-Gay Watch reported on the deliberate effort by Focus to lowball the attendance figures by [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Christine</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517/comment-page-1#comment-914</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517#comment-914</guid>
		<description>Oh, and P.S.

Obviously, at $40 for the registration fee, the numbers do not mean anything to us because we never intended to, or thought we could, break even. This conference will be paid for almost entirely by donations (um, we hope).

So I think folks can rest assured that when I say I didn&#039;t care much about the numbers as an indication of success, I am being honest (and actually, those who know me will know that I am almost incapable of lying anyway).

Of course, we did want as many former ex-gay folks to attend as possible, because our goal was not to create a statement with our numbers, but to further healing and wholeness, and attempt to undo some of the damage for those in attendance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and P.S.</p>
<p>Obviously, at $40 for the registration fee, the numbers do not mean anything to us because we never intended to, or thought we could, break even. This conference will be paid for almost entirely by donations (um, we hope).</p>
<p>So I think folks can rest assured that when I say I didn&#8217;t care much about the numbers as an indication of success, I am being honest (and actually, those who know me will know that I am almost incapable of lying anyway).</p>
<p>Of course, we did want as many former ex-gay folks to attend as possible, because our goal was not to create a statement with our numbers, but to further healing and wholeness, and attempt to undo some of the damage for those in attendance.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Burroway</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517/comment-page-1#comment-913</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Burroway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517#comment-913</guid>
		<description>Unlike Mesko&#039;s &quot;reliable people&quot; I actually did attend both conferences.

The Exodus conference is very different from Love Won Out. I&#039;d say most of the people there (more than 80% by my guess) were &quot;strugglers.&quot;

Everyone has abandoned the term &quot;ex-gay&quot; at Exodus. But Exodus leaders don&#039;t have an alternate word. Ordinary folks however often outrun their leaders in coining terminology, and Exodus is no exception. They call themselves &quot;strugglers,&quot; although I suspect the leaders are still casting about for a more marketable term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unlike Mesko&#8217;s &#8220;reliable people&#8221; I actually did attend both conferences.</p>
<p>The Exodus conference is very different from Love Won Out. I&#8217;d say most of the people there (more than 80% by my guess) were &#8220;strugglers.&#8221;</p>
<p>Everyone has abandoned the term &#8220;ex-gay&#8221; at Exodus. But Exodus leaders don&#8217;t have an alternate word. Ordinary folks however often outrun their leaders in coining terminology, and Exodus is no exception. They call themselves &#8220;strugglers,&#8221; although I suspect the leaders are still casting about for a more marketable term.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517/comment-page-1#comment-912</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517#comment-912</guid>
		<description>Actually, we just got an update that there were almost 200 people there because we had not been including walk-up scholarship folks. (And these numbers do not include those who came to the free events on Friday and Saturday nights). 

This number counts those who were only able to come for Saturday afternoon and Sunday, and those who were only able to come for Saturday morning, so someone walking through the grounds at a break time might say they only saw 150 people, and they&#039;d probably be right.

I just put the numbers here for those who are interested, but personally, I don&#039;t really care about the numbers. 

If we had 25 people come, I would have felt the conference was a success. It was not about the numbers for us, it was about creating a space to help folks. 

We had so many people who felt that their lives were changed from this event, and others who saw some hope for their future because of attending. To me, that&#039;s the true measure of success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, we just got an update that there were almost 200 people there because we had not been including walk-up scholarship folks. (And these numbers do not include those who came to the free events on Friday and Saturday nights). </p>
<p>This number counts those who were only able to come for Saturday afternoon and Sunday, and those who were only able to come for Saturday morning, so someone walking through the grounds at a break time might say they only saw 150 people, and they&#8217;d probably be right.</p>
<p>I just put the numbers here for those who are interested, but personally, I don&#8217;t really care about the numbers. </p>
<p>If we had 25 people come, I would have felt the conference was a success. It was not about the numbers for us, it was about creating a space to help folks. </p>
<p>We had so many people who felt that their lives were changed from this event, and others who saw some hope for their future because of attending. To me, that&#8217;s the true measure of success.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517/comment-page-1#comment-911</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517#comment-911</guid>
		<description>Nice to hear you had a good turnout Peterson.

I&#039;m guessing 80% of your 175 were ex-ex-gays.

I&#039;m also guessing that the Exodus conference didn&#039;t have that high a percentage of ex-gays at their conference.   If the crowd was anything like the Love One Out crowd I witnessed in Palm Springs, it was mostly parents of gays, concerned church goers and ministers.

I&#039;ll bet if we could find a way to screen those people out of Exodus&#039; attendance figures, you guys probably ended up with more people who were actually a part of the ex-gay/ex-ex world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to hear you had a good turnout Peterson.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing 80% of your 175 were ex-ex-gays.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also guessing that the Exodus conference didn&#8217;t have that high a percentage of ex-gays at their conference.   If the crowd was anything like the Love One Out crowd I witnessed in Palm Springs, it was mostly parents of gays, concerned church goers and ministers.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll bet if we could find a way to screen those people out of Exodus&#8217; attendance figures, you guys probably ended up with more people who were actually a part of the ex-gay/ex-ex world.</p>
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		<title>By: PW</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517/comment-page-1#comment-898</link>
		<dc:creator>PW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 04:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517#comment-898</guid>
		<description>Anyone should have serious questions about an organization that claims Christian values and has a consistent pattern of misleading and distortion in its postings on the Internet. And even more so when the writers of those postings do not take responsibility when they make a mistake. In this case, CitizenLink got it wrong and should take responsibility for that, particularly given their stated principle (per Ms. Mesko) of adhering to truth and accuracy. But no, we get a copout, an attempt to deflect the discussion with a cheap shot at the integrity of bloggers and the smug assumption that I would just take the bloggers&#039; word for it. Well for the record, I knew the time and location of the Survivors&#039; Conference long before I read the post at XGW. So when I read the CitizenLink article dated 6/28/2007 about a conference that didn&#039;t start until 6/30/2007, I knew the article was inaccurate there and then. I didn&#039;t need any of the bloggers Ms. Mesko thinks are so biased to tell me what my own eyes showed me. To put it another way, I knew the truth, and what CitizenLink tried to pass as truth was nothing of the kind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone should have serious questions about an organization that claims Christian values and has a consistent pattern of misleading and distortion in its postings on the Internet. And even more so when the writers of those postings do not take responsibility when they make a mistake. In this case, CitizenLink got it wrong and should take responsibility for that, particularly given their stated principle (per Ms. Mesko) of adhering to truth and accuracy. But no, we get a copout, an attempt to deflect the discussion with a cheap shot at the integrity of bloggers and the smug assumption that I would just take the bloggers&#8217; word for it. Well for the record, I knew the time and location of the Survivors&#8217; Conference long before I read the post at XGW. So when I read the CitizenLink article dated 6/28/2007 about a conference that didn&#8217;t start until 6/30/2007, I knew the article was inaccurate there and then. I didn&#8217;t need any of the bloggers Ms. Mesko thinks are so biased to tell me what my own eyes showed me. To put it another way, I knew the truth, and what CitizenLink tried to pass as truth was nothing of the kind.</p>
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		<title>By: homer</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517/comment-page-1#comment-897</link>
		<dc:creator>homer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 02:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/07/03/517#comment-897</guid>
		<description>People have a choice when they speak or write things:

1). tell the truth
2). lie
3). say nothing

Ms. Lesko has a choice, she should carefully consider which one is most important to her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People have a choice when they speak or write things:</p>
<p>1). tell the truth<br />
2). lie<br />
3). say nothing</p>
<p>Ms. Lesko has a choice, she should carefully consider which one is most important to her.</p>
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