Perhaps you are not fully aware or perhaps you participate in a ministry that is outside of the Exodus network, but whatever the reason, you are presenting a dialogue that is inconsistent with ex-gay teaching.

It is NOT adequate to be obedient and chaste. One must also have “left the lifestyle” and “walk away from the homosexual identity”. In other words, chastity simultaneous with identifying as gay is considered by Exodus to be a sinful as being a wanton crack whore who is indiscriminately promiscuous.

It is not foregoing sex that is the problem, it is trying to “identify” in a manner that is foreign to one’s God-given nature. It is perfectly possible to say, “I choose not to have sex with this person I’m attracted to” because of faith just as it is to do so out of commitment to another. But ex-gay ministries do not stop there. The strugglers are considered to be sinful if they even recognize and accept the attraction.

As for hetero-married strugglers, yes there are some. Few, very few, but some. And I’m happy for them.

But the Jones and Yarhouse study has shown us conclusively that these people still “struggle”. Personally, I don’t believe all this “stuggling” is what Christ came to reveal.

For some, perhaps. For many others I know, obedience and chaste living are a lifeline. I have been blwon away by how many ’strugglers’ have managed to find happiness in hetero-marriage, contrary to the general consensus. The experience scale is by no means homogenous.

I myself struggled with my sexual orientation for most of my late teen years and into my early 20s. I desperately sought out therapists who could help me change. In therapy I did everything I was told to, including dating women and even having sex… when I could find the stamina to “perform”. None of it helped! In fact the harder I tried the more depressed I became! I became so depressed I almost took my own life. But I finally realized something… All minorities that have faced discrimination have also had to face the inevitable stereotypes, misinformation, and downright lies told about them…

“Gays are weak, feminine, less then “men”…”
But I never felt that way!

“Gays are mentally ill or have some other mental illness…”
Other then the depression caused by the fear of societies judgment I had never had any psychological problem at all.

“Gays are incapable of having lasting long tern relationships…”
My first relationship lasted 12 years; my current one is 17 years and going strong. I don’t have a single heterosexual friend who had a relationship that last as long as even my shortest one!

In fact, as I learned to leave the homophobic baggage behind me I began to feel better and better…

I finally realized it was all just a dirty trick; a ruse to keep lesbians and gays in their place, in the back of the bus!

It took me almost to the age of 35 before I finally stopped giving a rat’s ass what anyone thought about me! I was gay and that was perfectly OK! If someone did not like that I was gay…well then that was their problem!

I have since devoted myself to gay rights. I advise ever closeted gay person I meet to come out. Sure – they might lose a friend or even a relative along the way but they will gain themselves, and nothing is more important then that!

What they are trying to do is break down the person’s self esteem, tell them it is their fault and their parents fault. It is all about a guilt trip, plain and simple. And show them that since it isn’t part of their inate nature, they can change. Brilliant wordsmithing. (Personhood – the key word, also plays into the abortion debate btw).Exactly what these people do to blame the victim (parent in particular). And this guilt opens pathways to the subconscious, through which the person’s self respect is destroyed, and replaced with Jesus and their weapon called the bible.

The whole thing is crap. It is all about control. Who are they to say that there is something wrong with being gay. What we really need to explain is the history of christianity, and how absolutists beliefs, from right wing christianity, extremist Islam, the Catholic church etc have brought the world war and mass murder in the name of God.

The above is just a touch on how brainwashing works. And they work on the parents, figuring that children don’t have the guts to stand up to their own parents. They are the same people who say give me a child by age 7 and I’ll make him a good christian for life. Of course, these mental perverters will poison the child before he has the knowledge and will to resist and ask questions. Hitler brainwashed a whole nation etc. Christianity has brainwashed whole generations of nations.

What the parents should be asking, besides the 7 verses of the bible (out of a million) that condemn gays, is what about all the verses that condemn the people pitching this sophisticated crap, adn the kindler gentler, but still control freak religions. What the parents should be asking is why these people think anyone should listen to religions who gave us the hatred of the Jews, Jesuss own people, slavery as per the bible, etc. What about condemning these people for eating swine and shellfish, wearing clothes of different clothes, and lets help them stone their daughters to death as per the bible, if they aren’t a virgin on their wedding day. Such selective crap comes in the name of God by christians, who are almost universally to be condemned to death themselves as per the bible. Oh that they would only go visit God by their own hand.

The whole thing is onesided, based on myths and lies. Christian / cahtolic absolutlist religions operate with the core being the terrorism of being sent to hell if you don’t believe as they say, and the scam insurance policy of life after death, since all normal people fear the end, unless they are so freaked out they commit suicide. Which btw happens to some of the victims – that is what they are – of these programs.

And on top of this guilt and fear and scam promises, they pile on all the other pure crap. These people are masters at psychology, they have had almost 2000 years to build and test their story. All based on the life of one admittedly appearing to be a good man. Who lived in an age of almost total ignorance and superstition. And an age where the priests (Jewish high priests- ps I’m Jewish btw) and others control all the writing, and teaching. Stories handed down unwritten for several centuries, and embellished along the way for the power of the priests. Power and control – that is what it is all about, Just like in Iran and Afghanistan today.

So the whole damn thing is all about control and power. Terribly sophisticated. Yes, they have seen that they needed a new language, since calling them the haters they are has had an impact. And their deals are Little different then when you get screwed with your mortgage at the bank. It is you alone, or with some BS low level lawyer, vs people in the business for decades, who know all the tricks and scams and how to hide them. So the issues that are should be brought up are buried and not touched upon. Kinda reminds me of my flying career – where we used to say “the silence was deafening ” when an engine quit. We need to expose this silence of what thye don’t say and make it deafening. And expose their new language. Kindler, gentler, but still the same goal – total mind control, make the parents in these situations into robots, and make the parents blame themselves for their gay kids. When they should be blaming these religious nut cases for making ‘gay’ something terrible, rather then being celebrated as part of mankinds diversity, and maybe an attempt by nature to control population growth. For beside religion, most wars are about stealing other nations natural resources.

And so what if gay people are gay for whatever reason. this is a free country. it is part of free speech and being “created equal” that that gays should be free of religious terrorism, denigration, denial of legal equality. And certainly being verbally screwed in the butt by these power mongers.

Fascist hardly describes these people. Something closer describes them – how people get brainwashed and do brainwashing. how they compartmentalize their humanity, an example of which was the super-absolutist control freaks of nazi germany. Think of the officers who would supervise throwing the Jews into the ovens during the day, and then go home and play wiht their children if they were lucky enough to have family nearby. Like these people who appear so nice, but condemn per their version of a hate filled god.

We need a single word to describe these people. That is misssing. Tar them.

And remember what it is all about. When the citizenry in general comes to accept gay people as good people (lots and lots of that is happening, though the word marriage is still an obstacle due to its historical basis,), eveything these people say will be understood for what they are. control freaks espousing lies. And for what they fear most – that their lies will be exposed, and with it the whole conservative christianity leadership will be seen as liars and hypocrites.

And it will die. As religion is dying in EG Europe, where only about 15% of people regularly attend church, and most of those are widows lookinhg for Husbands.

BTW, virtually every west european country except italy and greece recognize gay couples legally- wit h marrige civl union, or reg. partnerships. Ireland will happen this year with civil unions. Add Hungary, Slovenia, chech republic. Israel, Nepal, Columbia, Argentina*, Brazil* (3 million attend gay pride in Sao Paolo), Uraguay, Mexico*, Canada, Australia*, and new Zealand, and Japan* and republic of South Africa, now free of christian satanistics and apartheid. (* = parts of country, and or partial rights)

The zealots are losing. We need to expose them, and their new falsely kindler gentler language for what they really are about. People who, in their own belief system, are setting themselves up for a quick trip to God’s re-education camp called Hell.

Today I’ve been reading your articles about the Love Won Out conference. I wanted to say thank you for attending, and reporting your experiences fairly. I especially appreciate that you recognize that the people who attend these conferences are not hateful.

I’ve considered attending one of these conferences myself, because I have a close Christian friend who struggles with same sex attraction (I realize that I’m using the ‘LWO language’, but my friend does not label himself as gay, so I don’t label him either). But I have no bad feelings toward gay people, and would feel terrible about being grouped in with those who do, for attending a conference in support of a friend.

I notice that the last of these posts was written a long time ago – are you still planning to finish the series? I hope so; I’m looking forward to reading it. :)

I like your word choice. Many ex-gay ministries have indeed made an idol out of compliance to their understanding of gender roles as dictated by Scripture.

In The Good Book (if I recall correctly), Peter Gomes talks about how some Christians have stopped worshiping God in favor of worshiping the Bible.

Bottom Line: these folks, like evangelicals in general, are profoundly other-directed. It’s all about what the Bible says, not what my experience is, not what I want. Asking “what do I want?” is not possible.
Breaking that idol (if you like) is the real issue, it seems to me.
Paul