What they are trying to do is break down the person’s self esteem, tell them it is their fault and their parents fault. It is all about a guilt trip, plain and simple. And show them that since it isn’t part of their inate nature, they can change. Brilliant wordsmithing. (Personhood – the key word, also plays into the abortion debate btw).Exactly what these people do to blame the victim (parent in particular). And this guilt opens pathways to the subconscious, through which the person’s self respect is destroyed, and replaced with Jesus and their weapon called the bible.

The whole thing is crap. It is all about control. Who are they to say that there is something wrong with being gay. What we really need to explain is the history of christianity, and how absolutists beliefs, from right wing christianity, extremist Islam, the Catholic church etc have brought the world war and mass murder in the name of God.

The above is just a touch on how brainwashing works. And they work on the parents, figuring that children don’t have the guts to stand up to their own parents. They are the same people who say give me a child by age 7 and I’ll make him a good christian for life. Of course, these mental perverters will poison the child before he has the knowledge and will to resist and ask questions. Hitler brainwashed a whole nation etc. Christianity has brainwashed whole generations of nations.

What the parents should be asking, besides the 7 verses of the bible (out of a million) that condemn gays, is what about all the verses that condemn the people pitching this sophisticated crap, adn the kindler gentler, but still control freak religions. What the parents should be asking is why these people think anyone should listen to religions who gave us the hatred of the Jews, Jesuss own people, slavery as per the bible, etc. What about condemning these people for eating swine and shellfish, wearing clothes of different clothes, and lets help them stone their daughters to death as per the bible, if they aren’t a virgin on their wedding day. Such selective crap comes in the name of God by christians, who are almost universally to be condemned to death themselves as per the bible. Oh that they would only go visit God by their own hand.

The whole thing is onesided, based on myths and lies. Christian / cahtolic absolutlist religions operate with the core being the terrorism of being sent to hell if you don’t believe as they say, and the scam insurance policy of life after death, since all normal people fear the end, unless they are so freaked out they commit suicide. Which btw happens to some of the victims – that is what they are – of these programs.

And on top of this guilt and fear and scam promises, they pile on all the other pure crap. These people are masters at psychology, they have had almost 2000 years to build and test their story. All based on the life of one admittedly appearing to be a good man. Who lived in an age of almost total ignorance and superstition. And an age where the priests (Jewish high priests- ps I’m Jewish btw) and others control all the writing, and teaching. Stories handed down unwritten for several centuries, and embellished along the way for the power of the priests. Power and control – that is what it is all about, Just like in Iran and Afghanistan today.

So the whole damn thing is all about control and power. Terribly sophisticated. Yes, they have seen that they needed a new language, since calling them the haters they are has had an impact. And their deals are Little different then when you get screwed with your mortgage at the bank. It is you alone, or with some BS low level lawyer, vs people in the business for decades, who know all the tricks and scams and how to hide them. So the issues that are should be brought up are buried and not touched upon. Kinda reminds me of my flying career – where we used to say “the silence was deafening ” when an engine quit. We need to expose this silence of what thye don’t say and make it deafening. And expose their new language. Kindler, gentler, but still the same goal – total mind control, make the parents in these situations into robots, and make the parents blame themselves for their gay kids. When they should be blaming these religious nut cases for making ‘gay’ something terrible, rather then being celebrated as part of mankinds diversity, and maybe an attempt by nature to control population growth. For beside religion, most wars are about stealing other nations natural resources.

And so what if gay people are gay for whatever reason. this is a free country. it is part of free speech and being “created equal” that that gays should be free of religious terrorism, denigration, denial of legal equality. And certainly being verbally screwed in the butt by these power mongers.

Fascist hardly describes these people. Something closer describes them – how people get brainwashed and do brainwashing. how they compartmentalize their humanity, an example of which was the super-absolutist control freaks of nazi germany. Think of the officers who would supervise throwing the Jews into the ovens during the day, and then go home and play wiht their children if they were lucky enough to have family nearby. Like these people who appear so nice, but condemn per their version of a hate filled god.

We need a single word to describe these people. That is misssing. Tar them.

And remember what it is all about. When the citizenry in general comes to accept gay people as good people (lots and lots of that is happening, though the word marriage is still an obstacle due to its historical basis,), eveything these people say will be understood for what they are. control freaks espousing lies. And for what they fear most – that their lies will be exposed, and with it the whole conservative christianity leadership will be seen as liars and hypocrites.

And it will die. As religion is dying in EG Europe, where only about 15% of people regularly attend church, and most of those are widows lookinhg for Husbands.

BTW, virtually every west european country except italy and greece recognize gay couples legally- wit h marrige civl union, or reg. partnerships. Ireland will happen this year with civil unions. Add Hungary, Slovenia, chech republic. Israel, Nepal, Columbia, Argentina*, Brazil* (3 million attend gay pride in Sao Paolo), Uraguay, Mexico*, Canada, Australia*, and new Zealand, and Japan* and republic of South Africa, now free of christian satanistics and apartheid. (* = parts of country, and or partial rights)

The zealots are losing. We need to expose them, and their new falsely kindler gentler language for what they really are about. People who, in their own belief system, are setting themselves up for a quick trip to God’s re-education camp called Hell.

Today I’ve been reading your articles about the Love Won Out conference. I wanted to say thank you for attending, and reporting your experiences fairly. I especially appreciate that you recognize that the people who attend these conferences are not hateful.

I’ve considered attending one of these conferences myself, because I have a close Christian friend who struggles with same sex attraction (I realize that I’m using the ‘LWO language’, but my friend does not label himself as gay, so I don’t label him either). But I have no bad feelings toward gay people, and would feel terrible about being grouped in with those who do, for attending a conference in support of a friend.

I notice that the last of these posts was written a long time ago – are you still planning to finish the series? I hope so; I’m looking forward to reading it. :)

I like your word choice. Many ex-gay ministries have indeed made an idol out of compliance to their understanding of gender roles as dictated by Scripture.

In The Good Book (if I recall correctly), Peter Gomes talks about how some Christians have stopped worshiping God in favor of worshiping the Bible.

Bottom Line: these folks, like evangelicals in general, are profoundly other-directed. It’s all about what the Bible says, not what my experience is, not what I want. Asking “what do I want?” is not possible.
Breaking that idol (if you like) is the real issue, it seems to me.
Paul

I have read with great interest, and I have greatly enjoyed and appreciate, all of your articles on “Love Won Out” published here at Box Turtle Bulletin.

As a former Christian, I fully grasp the need for understanding the Christian mindset with regard to the “ex-gay” phenomenon, not only as a means of furthering communication between “us and them” (though I really don’t like the mindset, I’ll use that phrase here for brevity), but also as a means of mitigating the threat this kind of “ministry” represents to all LGBT people everywhere.

I notice, however, that this article was written over a year ago, and it appears that 3 more articles are/were intended to finish the series. When might we expect those to appear here at the Box Turtle?

Thank you for all of your diligent and much needed efforts.

Thank you for visiting. I hope you’ll stick around for other parts of our conversation.

Also, please check out the gay Christian network at http://gaychristian.net/

I’m certain that you will find a community of believers that share your faith. You’ll find a wide variety of backgrounds and theological positions – some favor celibacy, others committed and covenanted relationships – but all are there as gay persons seeking a relationship with God.

I have been involved in the conservative/evangelical Christian church for many years as a pastor, seminary graduate, and Jesus lover. I’ve been to the conferences about helping out those struggling with homosexuality and had the language down-pat. I was very secure in my theology. However, while working for a ministry, I met and fell in love with a same-sex Christian. Talk about being thrown for a loop! I still love Jesus more than life itself. I still pray, lead, minister, and engage in “homosexual activity.” I’ve never been happier, and my same-sex relationship has allowed me to experience Jesus’ heart and love for me more than I ever had as a single Christian.

Most of the true Christians that continue as my community and family firmly believe what Love Won Out teaches. It’s an extension of their love for Jesus. And yet they wrestle and agonize and grieve over their siblings, friends, and parents who “struggle with homosexuality.” And some of my friends live single lives (as I did without realizing it until I fell in love) partnered with same-sex “roommates,” living as gay/lesbian couples basically with the exception that they have no physical or sexual interaction. Some are aware of the tension/contradiction; others would be deeply ashamed/horrified to admit they basically are living as same-sex partners. None feel they can dialogue about the elephant in the room honestly or constructively.

Many Christians are dismissed right off the bat as “haters,” when really they are kind people who are trying their best to do what they have been taught honors God. Yes, there are the sign-holding haters, but they are not the majority of Christians (just the most offensive, obscene and spectacular).

I long for a time when others who love and understand Jesus and His message as I do will be enlightened about those who love partners of the same sex. “I once was blind, but now I see,” and so many Christians are blind, yes–but not mean, hateful, narrow people. Yet they are caricaturized, dismissed, and labeled–which is as unhelpful as when some Christian leaders (most of whom don’t even KNOW gays or lesbians personally or relationally) try to neatly categorize and analyze psychologically homosexuals.

What Jim has done and written about is the kind of thing that bridges, heals, confronts, and fosters reconciliation. A verse in Romans 2 (right after that first chapter that so many use as weapons to attack gays and lesbians) says that God’s LOVINGKINDNESS leads to repentance (a change of heart/belief/action). I believe lovingkindness will be the key to impacting true Christians, those who love and seek Jesus, to change their indoctrinated beliefs around God’s stance on homosexuality.

Jim, thank you, thank you, thank you.