Comments on: Decorated Paratrooper Booted Under DADT http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/08/27/701 News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric Sun, 12 Feb 2012 04:03:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: David http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/08/27/701/comment-page-1#comment-2037 David Tue, 28 Aug 2007 07:11:04 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/08/27/701#comment-2037 I recommend that Bill Perdue take his head from out of his rear end. That way he can make sensible comments to post rather than rattling off nonsense. I recommend that Bill Perdue take his head from out of his rear end. That way he can make sensible comments to post rather than rattling off nonsense.

]]> By: Bill Perdue http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/08/27/701/comment-page-1#comment-2034 Bill Perdue Tue, 28 Aug 2007 05:56:32 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/08/27/701#comment-2034 We ought to support the civil and legal rights of gays and lesbians swindled into joining the armed forces, but not give an inch on supporting the illegal use of the American military in places like Iraq/Afganistan and Vietnam/Cambodia. Perhaps it wasn't always so but service in the US military isn’t anything to be proud of and we should be encouraging gays and lesbians to stay out. Last week George Bush’s brain, Karl Rove, took a hike it unhinged him. Now he WANTS to draw the parallels between Vietnam and Iraq. In place of his lies here is the truth about those blood-spattered wars and what service in the US armed forces means. American politicians from both parties initiated and supported US military aggression and are entirely responsible for the death tolls in Vietnam and Iraq and the civil wars that erupt in the wake of the ferocious disruption of US military violence. Vietnam was criminally invaded by a Democrat 'peace' President and Congress with Republican complicity. The Vietnam War was based on a campaign of lies by LBJ’s administration. Nixon continued LBJ’s lies and policies until the US military was decisively defeated by obstinate Vietnamese resistance, American antiwar sentiment and a sea change of sentiment in the draftee Army. Most of the young draftees were against the war and what they did next changed everything. Active duty antiwar groups formed in the states and uniformed soldiers and sailors marched in demonstrations with civilians and vets. In Vietnam itself another surprising kind of escalation began. The antiwar sentiment in Vietnam escalated into from anger to rage to fraggings, eventually a lot of them, and then to individual and group mutinies. Finally a prevalent ‘lack of proper fighting spirit’ led to abortive military operations. It ended when Nixon and the Pentagon brass reared their army would crumble. Nixon declared ‘victory’ and began a pullout. At the very end they had one final magnificent offensive which didn’t slow down until the Generals and Admirals reached San Diego soon after April 30th, 1975. The invasion and escalations in Iraq are the responsibility of a Republican administration and Congress with Democrat collusion, including that of Hillary Clinton, poised to replay the Nixon role if she wins. Keep in mind though that a Democrat victory is far from assured. They repeated the same mistake after the 2004 and 2006 elections and refused to take a stand for the immediate and total withdrawal of US troops. The usual treachery followed and they’ve done nothing but whine that their hands are tied. On August 22, 2007, a Gallup poll said that the Congressional approval rate is the lowest it’s been since 1974. Barely 18% approve of the actions of the Congress while 76% disapprove. The poll was taken from August 13-16, 2007. Even George Bush has a higher rating! You only need to know three things about these wars. They’re wars led and backed by Democrats and Republicans. The bvast majority of Americans don't apporve and had no voice. They’re needless, unlawful wars based on lies. If Hitler, Goebbels, Goering. Keitel and von Ribbentrop were war criminals what does that make Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rove and Powell? They’re costly wars. Vietnam resulted in the probable deaths of over a million civilians but they were dying too fast to count. 58,219 GI’s died and 153,356 wounded. The criminal invasion of Iraq has killed many tens of thousands of civilians but like Vietnam an accurate civilian death toll is not to be had. As of today 3,725 GI’s are dead with 15,166 wounded and tossed back into combat. A further 12,340 GI’s have devastating wounds. Like Vietnam, their medical care is poor, their lives are shattered, and many will end up on the streets where veterans of Vietnam and Gulf One can give them survival tips. Although the war is enormously costly and it’s inflation will smolder through the economy for a decade or so, like it did after Vietnam, it’s the dead and wounded who must be our first priority. How many more will fall before we build a movement powerful enough to force an end to it. We ought to support the civil and legal rights of gays and lesbians swindled into joining the armed forces, but not give an inch on supporting the illegal use of the American military in places like Iraq/Afganistan and Vietnam/Cambodia.
Perhaps it wasn’t always so but service in the US military isn’t anything to be proud of and we should be encouraging gays and lesbians to stay out.
Last week George Bush’s brain, Karl Rove, took a hike it unhinged him. Now he WANTS to draw the parallels between Vietnam and Iraq.
In place of his lies here is the truth about those blood-spattered wars and what service in the US armed forces means.
American politicians from both parties initiated and supported US military aggression and are entirely responsible for the death tolls in Vietnam and Iraq and the civil wars that erupt in the wake of the ferocious disruption of US military violence.
Vietnam was criminally invaded by a Democrat ‘peace’ President and Congress with Republican complicity. The Vietnam War was based on a campaign of lies by LBJ’s administration. Nixon continued LBJ’s lies and policies until the US military was decisively defeated by obstinate Vietnamese resistance, American antiwar sentiment and a sea change of sentiment in the draftee Army.
Most of the young draftees were against the war and what they did next changed everything. Active duty antiwar groups formed in the states and uniformed soldiers and sailors marched in demonstrations with civilians and vets. In Vietnam itself another surprising kind of escalation began. The antiwar sentiment in Vietnam escalated into from anger to rage to fraggings, eventually a lot of them, and then to individual and group mutinies. Finally a prevalent ‘lack of proper fighting spirit’ led to abortive military operations.
It ended when Nixon and the Pentagon brass reared their army would crumble. Nixon declared ‘victory’ and began a pullout. At the very end they had one final magnificent offensive which didn’t slow down until the Generals and Admirals reached San Diego soon after April 30th, 1975.
The invasion and escalations in Iraq are the responsibility of a Republican administration and Congress with Democrat collusion, including that of Hillary Clinton, poised to replay the Nixon role if she wins.
Keep in mind though that a Democrat victory is far from assured. They repeated the same mistake after the 2004 and 2006 elections and refused to take a stand for the immediate and total withdrawal of US troops. The usual treachery followed and they’ve done nothing but whine that their hands are tied. On August 22, 2007, a Gallup poll said that the Congressional approval rate is the lowest it’s been since 1974. Barely 18% approve of the actions of the Congress while 76% disapprove. The poll was taken from August 13-16, 2007. Even George Bush has a higher rating!
You only need to know three things about these wars.

They’re wars led and backed by Democrats and Republicans. The bvast majority of Americans don’t apporve and had no voice.

They’re needless, unlawful wars based on lies. If Hitler, Goebbels, Goering. Keitel and von Ribbentrop were war criminals what does that make Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rove and Powell?

They’re costly wars. Vietnam resulted in the probable deaths of over a million civilians but they were dying too fast to count. 58,219 GI’s died and 153,356 wounded. The criminal invasion of Iraq has killed many tens of thousands of civilians but like Vietnam an accurate civilian death toll is not to be had. As of today 3,725 GI’s are dead with 15,166 wounded and tossed back into combat. A further 12,340 GI’s have devastating wounds. Like Vietnam, their medical care is poor, their lives are shattered, and many will end up on the streets where veterans of Vietnam and Gulf One can give them survival tips.
Although the war is enormously costly and it’s inflation will smolder through the economy for a decade or so, like it did after Vietnam, it’s the dead and wounded who must be our first priority. How many more will fall before we build a movement powerful enough to force an end to it.

]]> By: Lynn David http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/08/27/701/comment-page-1#comment-2032 Lynn David Tue, 28 Aug 2007 04:59:09 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/08/27/701#comment-2032 I too don't get it. If the bar is not "off limits" then what motivation can there be for asking him? The "spurned" soldier's report? What the hell was he doing in the bar? Being in a gay bar doesn't provide credible evidence that a "service member has engaged in homosexual conduct." Especially if he spurned anothers advances. And thus the commander had no real reason to ask Miller. Ok, now I read the full newspaper report. Miller was I imagine either fed up or stupid.... or both. He should have just shut up. Why he made himself into a martyr is beyond me, but like I said he may have taken more than he could stand in the military and just didn't give a damn. Next time, just tell your commander he has no credible evidence of "moral malfeasance" and you wouldn't tell him whether or not you were straight. And if the commander considers it to be credible evidence then it should occur only after a hearing in which you are represented by a lawyer to review said evidence against the DADT law is allowed. That'll probably get you booted anyway though. I too don’t get it. If the bar is not “off limits” then what motivation can there be for asking him? The “spurned” soldier’s report? What the hell was he doing in the bar? Being in a gay bar doesn’t provide credible evidence that a “service member has engaged in homosexual conduct.” Especially if he spurned anothers advances. And thus the commander had no real reason to ask Miller.

Ok, now I read the full newspaper report. Miller was I imagine either fed up or stupid…. or both. He should have just shut up. Why he made himself into a martyr is beyond me, but like I said he may have taken more than he could stand in the military and just didn’t give a damn.

Next time, just tell your commander he has no credible evidence of “moral malfeasance” and you wouldn’t tell him whether or not you were straight. And if the commander considers it to be credible evidence then it should occur only after a hearing in which you are represented by a lawyer to review said evidence against the DADT law is allowed.

That’ll probably get you booted anyway though.

]]> By: Emily K http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/08/27/701/comment-page-1#comment-2029 Emily K Tue, 28 Aug 2007 02:17:00 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/08/27/701#comment-2029 Also, what the hell happened to the "Don't Ask" part of DADT??? If gays aren't talking, who the hell is asking? Shouldn't that other gay soldier not have said anything? Shouldn't he NOT have asked? Why is what he did acceptable under DADT?? Also, what the hell happened to the “Don’t Ask” part of DADT??? If gays aren’t talking, who the hell is asking? Shouldn’t that other gay soldier not have said anything? Shouldn’t he NOT have asked? Why is what he did acceptable under DADT??

]]> By: Emily K http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/08/27/701/comment-page-1#comment-2028 Emily K Tue, 28 Aug 2007 02:15:33 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/08/27/701#comment-2028 It's like having a criminal convicted but punishing the prosecutor instead. It’s like having a criminal convicted but punishing the prosecutor instead.

]]> By: John http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/08/27/701/comment-page-1#comment-2019 John Mon, 27 Aug 2007 16:41:16 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/08/27/701#comment-2019 I don't know which is more upsetting: that this decorated paratrooper was expelled under a stupid law or that another gay military man tattled on him to a superior officer. Argh. I don’t know which is more upsetting: that this decorated paratrooper was expelled under a stupid law or that another gay military man tattled on him to a superior officer. Argh.

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