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	<title>Comments on: Family Impact Summit: A Lesbian Shows Peter Sprigg How To Debate</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Wendie</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822/comment-page-1#comment-57434</link>
		<dc:creator>Wendie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822#comment-57434</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been trying to figure out why there needs to be a law on the books that allow gays to marry.  In searching the US Constitution, I&#039;ve found nothing that says a marriage must consist of 2 opposite-sex people. It does mention the age of consent, but neither race nor sexual requirements.  So if there is nothing in the Constitution that forbids same-sex marriages, what makes it illegal? Why do we have to create a specific law that extends the rights of marriage to people who should already have that right under the laws of the land?  Why hasn&#039;t anyone challenged these votings?  The state of Maine voted to allow same-sex marriages.  At the last election, those opposed spent $10 MILLION to overturn that law. Much to my disappointment, they won. But, shouldn&#039;t it be unconstitutional to requre a law to be in place before two consenting adults can marry?  And wouldn&#039;t that $10 MILLION have been put to far better use elsewhere?  A man should not be allowed to marry his favorite sheep.  But as long as you are of the same species, it shouldn&#039;t be anyone&#039;s business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been trying to figure out why there needs to be a law on the books that allow gays to marry.  In searching the US Constitution, I&#8217;ve found nothing that says a marriage must consist of 2 opposite-sex people. It does mention the age of consent, but neither race nor sexual requirements.  So if there is nothing in the Constitution that forbids same-sex marriages, what makes it illegal? Why do we have to create a specific law that extends the rights of marriage to people who should already have that right under the laws of the land?  Why hasn&#8217;t anyone challenged these votings?  The state of Maine voted to allow same-sex marriages.  At the last election, those opposed spent $10 MILLION to overturn that law. Much to my disappointment, they won. But, shouldn&#8217;t it be unconstitutional to requre a law to be in place before two consenting adults can marry?  And wouldn&#8217;t that $10 MILLION have been put to far better use elsewhere?  A man should not be allowed to marry his favorite sheep.  But as long as you are of the same species, it shouldn&#8217;t be anyone&#8217;s business.</p>
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		<title>By: Brave Lesbian at Family Impact Summit</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822/comment-page-1#comment-12049</link>
		<dc:creator>Brave Lesbian at Family Impact Summit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 03:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822#comment-12049</guid>
		<description>[...] the &#8220;experts&#8221; (adam &amp; eve is how it all began and the earth is 5,000 years old). Box Turtle Bulletin reports that the woman wiped the floor with the loonies. Click here for the complete [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the &#8220;experts&#8221; (adam &amp; eve is how it all began and the earth is 5,000 years old). Box Turtle Bulletin reports that the woman wiped the floor with the loonies. Click here for the complete [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822/comment-page-1#comment-8061</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822#comment-8061</guid>
		<description>Birdeye,

&lt;blockquote&gt;Uh, it’s a proven fact that single-mom homes produce more disadvantaged children&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Which is of absolutely no relevance whatsoever when we are talking about two-parent homes.

We do know that single-parent homes are more difficult for children.  And while it was not the case in every situation, I agree with you that there have been too many instances in which heterosexual couples were too lazy, too proud, too selfish, or too obstinate to work out their differences and chose instead to disadvantage their children.  

But what we are talking about is taking a two parent family and instead of helping nurture that family, anti-gays are doing anything they can to make it more difficult for that family to survive intact - solely because the parents are the same sex.  That&#039;s not only stupid and contradictory to their stated goals, but it is also cruel.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t think there’s data for homo couples yet, although it does strike me as unnatural.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What strikes me as unnatural are people who base their opinions on nothing at all whatsoever... but still think that their opinion is valid and worth sharing with others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Birdeye,</p>
<blockquote><p>Uh, it’s a proven fact that single-mom homes produce more disadvantaged children</p></blockquote>
<p>Which is of absolutely no relevance whatsoever when we are talking about two-parent homes.</p>
<p>We do know that single-parent homes are more difficult for children.  And while it was not the case in every situation, I agree with you that there have been too many instances in which heterosexual couples were too lazy, too proud, too selfish, or too obstinate to work out their differences and chose instead to disadvantage their children.  </p>
<p>But what we are talking about is taking a two parent family and instead of helping nurture that family, anti-gays are doing anything they can to make it more difficult for that family to survive intact &#8211; solely because the parents are the same sex.  That&#8217;s not only stupid and contradictory to their stated goals, but it is also cruel.</p>
<blockquote><p>I don’t think there’s data for homo couples yet, although it does strike me as unnatural.</p></blockquote>
<p>What strikes me as unnatural are people who base their opinions on nothing at all whatsoever&#8230; but still think that their opinion is valid and worth sharing with others.</p>
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		<title>By: Byrdeye</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822/comment-page-1#comment-8058</link>
		<dc:creator>Byrdeye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822#comment-8058</guid>
		<description>Uh, it&#039;s a proven fact that single-mom homes produce more disadvantaged children - whose parenting burdens then fall upon taxpayers (see African-America where 70% of babies got no daddy):



&quot;children who grow up with their married parents do better on a wide variety of measures, that means family structure is playing an important role in the rise of inequality and the decline of immobility. Worse, because the children of single mothers are more likely to become single parents themselves, the marriage gap is self-perpetuating.

As for children, no one really had much to say about the effect of this radical transformation on them, or if they did, they implied that since the nuclear family was such a hot house of patriarchal dysfunction, the kids might be better off too. It&#039;s mind-boggling to read what passed for social science research on the family throughout the 1970&#039;s and 1980&#039;s. For those decades family researchers either ignored the question of family structure entirely

early 1990&#039;s that social scientists designed more serious studies and began to reach a consensus that kids do better on average with married parents&quot;


But these are for hetero-married couples.  I don&#039;t think there&#039;s data for homo couples yet, although it does strike me as unnatural.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, it&#8217;s a proven fact that single-mom homes produce more disadvantaged children &#8211; whose parenting burdens then fall upon taxpayers (see African-America where 70% of babies got no daddy):</p>
<p>&#8220;children who grow up with their married parents do better on a wide variety of measures, that means family structure is playing an important role in the rise of inequality and the decline of immobility. Worse, because the children of single mothers are more likely to become single parents themselves, the marriage gap is self-perpetuating.</p>
<p>As for children, no one really had much to say about the effect of this radical transformation on them, or if they did, they implied that since the nuclear family was such a hot house of patriarchal dysfunction, the kids might be better off too. It&#8217;s mind-boggling to read what passed for social science research on the family throughout the 1970&#8217;s and 1980&#8217;s. For those decades family researchers either ignored the question of family structure entirely</p>
<p>early 1990&#8217;s that social scientists designed more serious studies and began to reach a consensus that kids do better on average with married parents&#8221;</p>
<p>But these are for hetero-married couples.  I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s data for homo couples yet, although it does strike me as unnatural.</p>
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		<title>By: Being Amber Rhea &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-03-21</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822/comment-page-1#comment-7916</link>
		<dc:creator>Being Amber Rhea &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-03-21</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 23:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822#comment-7916</guid>
		<description>[...] Box Turtle Bulletin » Family Impact Summit: A Lesbian Shows Peter Sprigg How To Debate &#8220;But one brave woman burst through the bluster and showed that the emperors had no clothes. It was a wonderful moment, and for me the greatest highlight of the whole conference.&#8221; This is so awesome. (tags: rights politics gay lgbt law debate marriage) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Box Turtle Bulletin » Family Impact Summit: A Lesbian Shows Peter Sprigg How To Debate &#8220;But one brave woman burst through the bluster and showed that the emperors had no clothes. It was a wonderful moment, and for me the greatest highlight of the whole conference.&#8221; This is so awesome. (tags: rights politics gay lgbt law debate marriage) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jason D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822/comment-page-1#comment-7493</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822#comment-7493</guid>
		<description>Michelle, Good points, all of them.  Please stick around and favor us with more &quot;rambling thoughts&quot;.  
They seem to come from a solid place of love.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michelle, Good points, all of them.  Please stick around and favor us with more &#8220;rambling thoughts&#8221;.<br />
They seem to come from a solid place of love.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822/comment-page-1#comment-7482</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822#comment-7482</guid>
		<description>Michelle,

Thank you for stopping by.  Please continue to keep your eyes and ears, and more importantly heart, open in this ongoing discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michelle,</p>
<p>Thank you for stopping by.  Please continue to keep your eyes and ears, and more importantly heart, open in this ongoing discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822/comment-page-1#comment-7481</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822#comment-7481</guid>
		<description>Hi all,

I just kind of stumbled across this site, in a search of Sprigg&#039;s name-I was in an organization he used to be in, so I was curious.

As a pretty conservative Christian, I have to admit that most of the gay debate/information I&#039;ve heard has come from one side-that of the conservative Christian angle.  Looking at my own motives honestly, I think I was coming at it from an angle of having had a bad experience.

One thing that I think has been woefully forgotten by many bible-reading Christians (or at least people who say they are) has been the respectful, compassionate attitude that Christ Himself had toward people-particularly the ones that society as a whole had rejected.  His harshest critiques were saved for the religious leaders.

I can&#039;t say for sure what Jesus would have done, but I wonder if it might have been similar to what that lady did-go up to the mic and put the leaders on the spot?  And one thing I&#039;m pretty sure He would do is choose to go to lunch with her, rather than the speakers...

Just rambling thoughts from a random Christian, for what they&#039;re worth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>I just kind of stumbled across this site, in a search of Sprigg&#8217;s name-I was in an organization he used to be in, so I was curious.</p>
<p>As a pretty conservative Christian, I have to admit that most of the gay debate/information I&#8217;ve heard has come from one side-that of the conservative Christian angle.  Looking at my own motives honestly, I think I was coming at it from an angle of having had a bad experience.</p>
<p>One thing that I think has been woefully forgotten by many bible-reading Christians (or at least people who say they are) has been the respectful, compassionate attitude that Christ Himself had toward people-particularly the ones that society as a whole had rejected.  His harshest critiques were saved for the religious leaders.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t say for sure what Jesus would have done, but I wonder if it might have been similar to what that lady did-go up to the mic and put the leaders on the spot?  And one thing I&#8217;m pretty sure He would do is choose to go to lunch with her, rather than the speakers&#8230;</p>
<p>Just rambling thoughts from a random Christian, for what they&#8217;re worth.</p>
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		<title>By: Family Pride&#8217;s Blog &#187; exclusive: infamous Florida lesbian mom speaks out&#8230; again!</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822/comment-page-1#comment-3318</link>
		<dc:creator>Family Pride&#8217;s Blog &#187; exclusive: infamous Florida lesbian mom speaks out&#8230; again!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822#comment-3318</guid>
		<description>[...] want to thank David for asking me to comment on my experience at the Family Impact Summit.  Jim Burroway from Box Turtle Bulletin pretty much summed up the interaction I had with the panelists so I would like to tell you about the press conference and a few comments [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] want to thank David for asking me to comment on my experience at the Family Impact Summit.  Jim Burroway from Box Turtle Bulletin pretty much summed up the interaction I had with the panelists so I would like to tell you about the press conference and a few comments [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822/comment-page-1#comment-3030</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/24/822#comment-3030</guid>
		<description>Emproph,
Good point, but I think the analogy becomes even more ridiculous when people are treated as &quot;drugs&quot;, don&#039;t you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emproph,<br />
Good point, but I think the analogy becomes even more ridiculous when people are treated as &#8220;drugs&#8221;, don&#8217;t you think?</p>
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