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	<title>Comments on: Log Cabin Republicans Attack Ad Against Mitt Romney</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Laser Haas</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852/comment-page-1#comment-4043</link>
		<dc:creator>Laser Haas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 08:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852#comment-4043</guid>
		<description>This comment has been removed due to a violation of our comments policy. All accusations of wrongdoing require substantiation and sources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This comment has been removed due to a violation of our comments policy. All accusations of wrongdoing require substantiation and sources.</p>
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		<title>By: allan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852/comment-page-1#comment-3251</link>
		<dc:creator>allan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 22:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852#comment-3251</guid>
		<description>uh,, yea..
it&#039;s an anti romney ad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>uh,, yea..<br />
it&#8217;s an anti romney ad.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852/comment-page-1#comment-3247</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 19:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852#comment-3247</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a gay Republican.  Personally, I think this ad is genius.

First, you have to keep in mind that gay Republicans support gay marriage because we believe it to be an authentically &lt;i&gt;conservative&lt;/i&gt; position.  One need only look at the late Barry Goldwater to see the fundamental congruence of conservatism (of the libertarian or, as I prefer to be called, &quot;classical liberal&quot; variety) with supporting the liberties of gay citizens.  Gay marriage is important because it enhances societal stability and is truly the &quot;pro-family&quot; position.

Second, keep in mind that more than half of Republicans generally are themselves disconcerted by the disproportionate influence of the socially conservative Dobson wing on the Republican party.  You wouldn&#039;t know it, but half support the end of DADT.  Two-fifths support gay marriage or civil unions.  More than three quarters oppose allowing employers to discriminate based on sexual orientation.  The Dobson wing really is just a minority of Republican voters, even though they&#039;ve been treated like they run the place.

Third, remember that Romney is leading in Iowa and New Hampshire, and that he is not leading solely because of the evangelical bloc.  While he no doubt has almost all of that bloc in his camp, the majority of New Hampshire Republicans are, almost by definition, relatively close to being my kind of Republicans.

Now, personally, I see--and I&#039;m sure that the LCR leadership sees it the same way--a Romney nomination as a full-fledged disaster for the Republican party.  Aside from the fact that Romney is essentially unelectable, he would owe his political existence to the continued dominance of the socially conservative wing of the party.  If elected, it would more or less mean the death for quite some time of any other vision of the Republican Party.

How do you hurt him the worst?  Criticizing him for flip-flopping on gay issues would only intentionally decrease his support among the voters least likely to be in his camp to start with, and would unintentionally decrease his support only by appealing to the homophobic tendencies of his core bloc.

On the other hand, the four things they chose to hit him on make complete sense.

-They hit his conservative credentials in general.

-They hit him on abortion.  Some two-thirds of Republicans consider themselves &quot;pro-life.&quot;  (A majority of those, however, believe that abortion should be legal in some circumstances.)  This hits  his support in his core bloc hard, but it also hurts him outside of that bloc as well.

-A pro-second amendment attitude is relatively pervasive in the Republican Party, especially among the more libertarian bloc with which I identify.  Hitting him here hurts his support across a broad spectrum.

-Hitting him for distancing himself from Ronald Reagan.  Reagan, is of course, a Republican hero, so this hurts him across the party.  Not only that, however, but Reagan never really was much of Dobson type of guy.  Reagan almost single-handed defeated a measure in California to ban gay teachers from schools, which coincided with the establishment of the LCR group and which the group to claim Reagan, to some extent, as one of their own.

The general effect is, of course, to expose Romney for the massive fraud that he is.

I wouldn&#039;t read too much into the &quot;Massachusetts values&quot; line.  Most people aren&#039;t even going to realize that it&#039;s a gay group airing the ad.  Even still, I would say--and thing most LCRs would agree--that gay marriage is pretty the &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; thing going right with Massachusetts politics.  While I spent some time in Massachusetts recently, and just knowing that I had the right to get married there had a pretty significant impact on me, it&#039;s also true that I would be relatively averse to saying that I have &quot;Massachusetts values.&quot;  On gay issues?  Certainly.  On everything else?  Certainly not.

This ad is pure political genius.  It hits Romney hard on blocs within the Republican party with whom gay Republicans might find political allies, while simultaneously undercutting his support in the bloc which gay Republicans find anathema--and it does without a cynical and destructive appeal to their homophobia.  This ad has the potential to send saner Republican voters currently tempted by Romney to the other big three who are far less in bed with people like James Dobson while simultaneously sending members of the Dobson crowd to nobodies like Huckabee and Brownback.  All in all, that ain&#039;t bad for a thirty-second spot put on by a small group of gay Republicans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a gay Republican.  Personally, I think this ad is genius.</p>
<p>First, you have to keep in mind that gay Republicans support gay marriage because we believe it to be an authentically <i>conservative</i> position.  One need only look at the late Barry Goldwater to see the fundamental congruence of conservatism (of the libertarian or, as I prefer to be called, &#8220;classical liberal&#8221; variety) with supporting the liberties of gay citizens.  Gay marriage is important because it enhances societal stability and is truly the &#8220;pro-family&#8221; position.</p>
<p>Second, keep in mind that more than half of Republicans generally are themselves disconcerted by the disproportionate influence of the socially conservative Dobson wing on the Republican party.  You wouldn&#8217;t know it, but half support the end of DADT.  Two-fifths support gay marriage or civil unions.  More than three quarters oppose allowing employers to discriminate based on sexual orientation.  The Dobson wing really is just a minority of Republican voters, even though they&#8217;ve been treated like they run the place.</p>
<p>Third, remember that Romney is leading in Iowa and New Hampshire, and that he is not leading solely because of the evangelical bloc.  While he no doubt has almost all of that bloc in his camp, the majority of New Hampshire Republicans are, almost by definition, relatively close to being my kind of Republicans.</p>
<p>Now, personally, I see&#8211;and I&#8217;m sure that the LCR leadership sees it the same way&#8211;a Romney nomination as a full-fledged disaster for the Republican party.  Aside from the fact that Romney is essentially unelectable, he would owe his political existence to the continued dominance of the socially conservative wing of the party.  If elected, it would more or less mean the death for quite some time of any other vision of the Republican Party.</p>
<p>How do you hurt him the worst?  Criticizing him for flip-flopping on gay issues would only intentionally decrease his support among the voters least likely to be in his camp to start with, and would unintentionally decrease his support only by appealing to the homophobic tendencies of his core bloc.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the four things they chose to hit him on make complete sense.</p>
<p>-They hit his conservative credentials in general.</p>
<p>-They hit him on abortion.  Some two-thirds of Republicans consider themselves &#8220;pro-life.&#8221;  (A majority of those, however, believe that abortion should be legal in some circumstances.)  This hits  his support in his core bloc hard, but it also hurts him outside of that bloc as well.</p>
<p>-A pro-second amendment attitude is relatively pervasive in the Republican Party, especially among the more libertarian bloc with which I identify.  Hitting him here hurts his support across a broad spectrum.</p>
<p>-Hitting him for distancing himself from Ronald Reagan.  Reagan, is of course, a Republican hero, so this hurts him across the party.  Not only that, however, but Reagan never really was much of Dobson type of guy.  Reagan almost single-handed defeated a measure in California to ban gay teachers from schools, which coincided with the establishment of the LCR group and which the group to claim Reagan, to some extent, as one of their own.</p>
<p>The general effect is, of course, to expose Romney for the massive fraud that he is.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t read too much into the &#8220;Massachusetts values&#8221; line.  Most people aren&#8217;t even going to realize that it&#8217;s a gay group airing the ad.  Even still, I would say&#8211;and thing most LCRs would agree&#8211;that gay marriage is pretty the <i>only</i> thing going right with Massachusetts politics.  While I spent some time in Massachusetts recently, and just knowing that I had the right to get married there had a pretty significant impact on me, it&#8217;s also true that I would be relatively averse to saying that I have &#8220;Massachusetts values.&#8221;  On gay issues?  Certainly.  On everything else?  Certainly not.</p>
<p>This ad is pure political genius.  It hits Romney hard on blocs within the Republican party with whom gay Republicans might find political allies, while simultaneously undercutting his support in the bloc which gay Republicans find anathema&#8211;and it does without a cynical and destructive appeal to their homophobia.  This ad has the potential to send saner Republican voters currently tempted by Romney to the other big three who are far less in bed with people like James Dobson while simultaneously sending members of the Dobson crowd to nobodies like Huckabee and Brownback.  All in all, that ain&#8217;t bad for a thirty-second spot put on by a small group of gay Republicans.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852/comment-page-1#comment-3238</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 16:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852#comment-3238</guid>
		<description>Kipesquire,

&lt;i&gt;And none of this changes the fact that gay Republicans are, by defintion, self-loathing.&lt;/i&gt;

This sort of antagonism and ad hominem attack are unacceptable at this site.  Your statement is neither true nor civil. Do not repeat it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kipesquire,</p>
<p><i>And none of this changes the fact that gay Republicans are, by defintion, self-loathing.</i></p>
<p>This sort of antagonism and ad hominem attack are unacceptable at this site.  Your statement is neither true nor civil. Do not repeat it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben In Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852/comment-page-1#comment-3237</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben In Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852#comment-3237</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t even begin to fathom this ad. Big ol pink elephant sitting on the sofa, indeed! The Repubs-- including LCR-- are bringing this country down to its knees, and not in a good way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t even begin to fathom this ad. Big ol pink elephant sitting on the sofa, indeed! The Repubs&#8211; including LCR&#8211; are bringing this country down to its knees, and not in a good way.</p>
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		<title>By: A Stitch in Haste</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852/comment-page-1#comment-3232</link>
		<dc:creator>A Stitch in Haste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852#comment-3232</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;With Enemies Like This......&lt;/strong&gt;

In response to this video:

...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>With Enemies Like This&#8230;&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>In response to this video:</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: KipEsquire</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852/comment-page-1#comment-3230</link>
		<dc:creator>KipEsquire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852#comment-3230</guid>
		<description>The best thing that could happen to a GOP candidate&#039;s chances of winning the nomination is to be attacked by LCR.

And none of this changes the fact that gay Republicans are, by defintion, self-loathing.

(Full Disclosure: I am not a Democrat.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best thing that could happen to a GOP candidate&#8217;s chances of winning the nomination is to be attacked by LCR.</p>
<p>And none of this changes the fact that gay Republicans are, by defintion, self-loathing.</p>
<p>(Full Disclosure: I am not a Democrat.)</p>
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		<title>By: Benton</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852/comment-page-1#comment-3228</link>
		<dc:creator>Benton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852#comment-3228</guid>
		<description>Truthfully, I wasn&#039;t sure if it was an attack ad or what.  But I do agree about the Mass. Values comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truthfully, I wasn&#8217;t sure if it was an attack ad or what.  But I do agree about the Mass. Values comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Robguy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852/comment-page-1#comment-3223</link>
		<dc:creator>Robguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 04:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/04/852#comment-3223</guid>
		<description>That was an attack ad?  I thought they were endorsing him.  Those wacky Like Cock Republicans - I can&#039;t make sense out of ANYTHING they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was an attack ad?  I thought they were endorsing him.  Those wacky Like Cock Republicans &#8211; I can&#8217;t make sense out of ANYTHING they do.</p>
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