Regarding Wayne Besen. I don’t know him. I think he is a lot angrier than the guys here at BTB. I recognize it, because I have been ‘chided’ a bit about letting my anger get the better of me, and letting my occasionally sharp wit get expressed with no brakes applied. (And no, I’m not complaining about the chiding. The ‘chider’ was quite right). That may have been what you were hearing from him.

Your point about the women is quite well made. The two women now together and living off their ex-husbands sound like they are not all that great to begin with as people. I’ve heard that story before. It’s one thing to say “OK, I’m gay. I can’t do this any more.” It is quite another thing to screw over your ex-husband because of your own choices. Good for you that you are standing up for the men as well.

It all underlines the tremendous amount of damage that the family-values crowd does to actual families. All of these bloggers do great work in exposing the lies, the hatred, and the stupidity of the right wingers.

I did feel that he dismissed my questions about why there seems to be no discussion about closeted lesbians who marry men.

I am actually a gay man who has never been married to a woman. I married my husband in Toronto in 2003 after 12 years together. We had a son (my biological) in 1994. In 2002 I started a support group for gay dads to network with and support other gay fathers in light of our, what I thought at the time was, unique struggles in a society that is not only homophobic but also all too often unsupportive of fathers and fatherhood; especially divorced, single or gay fathers.

I soon realized that a lot of our issues and struggles were NOT exclusive to GAY fathers but were common across lines of fatherhood. I opened up my support group to single fathers, divorced fathers and non-custodial fathers.

It was through this intimate environment where men pour out their souls in ways that men seldom do that I discovered just how badly abused men and fathers can be by gender roles, gender biases, popular “man’s world” myths and the family court system in this country.

The story that you shared above is not at all uncommon.

I have heard horror stories that it seems no one wants to hear and even when people hear them they seem unconcerned or skeptical if the victim is male.

When I hear discussion after discussion about the evil gay men who marry these poor straight women my heart goes out to the women but I wonder why no one seems to want to talk about one of my friends who’s closeted lesbian wife started a relationship with a woman while still married to him; blamed him for the failure of their marriage; took his kids, the house and more than half of his assets and left him paying alimony and child support to the very person who deceived him, broke his heart and threw him away like yesterday’s trash.

She now lives with the woman she cheated on him with. He will have to continue paying her alimony because she won’t be able to marry her girlfriend. She never misses an opportunity to rub that in his face. Talk about adding insult to injury. If that isn’t enough; the woman’s girlfriend is ALSO getting a monthly alimony check from the husband she left.

This is why I get so angry and frustrated when I hear these ad nauseam one sided, sexist and gender biased discussions. I think you’re right that it isn’t intentional but it does show how deeply ingrained our gender biases and gender myths are, especially when confronted with the possibility that a man can be a victim and a woman can be a victimizer.

I shared my concern about the lack of the male spouse voice with MY HERO Wayne Bessen after I saw the videos on his site. All I got in return was a defensive email and a scolding for, according to him, not feeling badly enough for the women in the videos. I DO feel bad for them but that doesn’t negate my concerns.

Anyway, sorry to ramble on and on.

I just want to thank you again for your thoughtful consideration and response.

I recently found your wonderful site. It’s already become one of my favorites.

Ben in Oakland, I think you’re right but I’d still like to see him undergo the no-lie MRI. I think he owes it to the poor souls that he recruits into his scam but I’m certainly not going to hold my breath!

I think you raise a very good point. There has been no discussion that I’m aware of about men who had been married to closeted lesbians. I suspect its simply because there have been very few spouses come forward to date — it’s often a very difficult subject to talk about.

I don’t think the bias is necessarily completely intentional — not in my experience at least, although I wouldn’t presume to dispute yours. But I think you bring up a good point about sexism and gender biases. Men often don’t make good “victims,” no matter how badly they may have been hurt. And that’s a terrible shame.

I think my first exposure to this problem goes back to when I was still in college an working at a co-op job in the Washington DC area. A co-worker was going through a divorce after his wife had endured a nervous breakdown over conflicts with her sexuality. She finally left him, an experience that he took with great bitterness and pain.

I’m very sorry that you’ve experienced such denial and hostility when you brought the subject up. (You don’t say so directly, but I presume you were the straight spouse of a lesbian.) But I encourage you to talk about your experiences whenever you can. Your visibility is very important.

One excellent resource for that is an organization called Beyond Ex-Gay. And another organization which comes highly recommended is the Straight Spouse Network.

Of course you have to promote shame and dispair as a means of job security because you know as well as I do that it isn’t a person’s homosexuality that causes them shame and dispair but rather the homophobia of others mixed with the deeply instilled homophobia of the person resulting from a lifetime of constant bigotry and oppression directed at the GLBT community.

It shameful and disgusting that you promote this INDUSTRY of dispair. It is more shameful and disgusting still that you do it in the name of Jesus/God.

The day that you submit to and pass a “no-lie MRI” will be the day I believe you. So, how’s about it? You could set the record “straight” once and for all, and give Exodus invaluable credibility and free advertisement, just by publicly submitting to a scientific test of your truthfulness. Will you do that?

I think it is shameful that we look at this issue through such sexist and gender biased lenses.

Amazingly when I bring up this extremely obvious bias I am confronted with denial, defensiveness and hostility rather than consideration; especially from gay MEN. I also wonder why that is.

You accuse Wayne Besen of using these poor suckers to further his cause. and what are YOU doing with them?

It is certainly a case of the Melmac calling the Fiesta Ware lavender.

But it is disingenuous to claim the Exodus bears no responsibility. just like the NRA opposing any piece of responsible gun ocntrol legislation and then claiming that guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Your version is: “Ex-gays don’t break up families. Gay people break up families.”

The “family values” crowd is the most anti-family group around.

But it is disingenuous to claim the Exodus bears no responsibility. just like the NRA opposing any piece of responsible gun ocntrol legislation and then claiming that guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

You yourself has stated that you struggle, yet you are married. you also have a well paying job and a lot of praise and attention for your ex-gay business ventures. your organizaiton puts a tremendous value of “being straight” or at least on “not-being gay.” You peddle a particular brand of delusuion to the poor suckers who hate and/or fear themselves (or at least fear their imaginary father figure in heaven) sufficiently to buy it. Marriage is the ultimate prize– “See everyone? See self? See God? See society? See religion that teaches me to destroy myself? See all of you? I got the prize. I’m straight! I’m married.”

And then you claim no responsbility?
Please.

As I said to one nice Christian lady. “Of course you don’t hate gay people. you allow others todo the hating. you just get to follow along.”