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	<title>Comments on: Guess Who the First Published Author In Cameron&#8217;s New &#8220;Journal&#8221; Is</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: ebohlman</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904/comment-page-1#comment-3563</link>
		<dc:creator>ebohlman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904#comment-3563</guid>
		<description>Another problem with the use of news stories about child sexual abuse (CSA) is that many cases of CSA don&#039;t make it into the news for a purely ethical reason: the circumstances of many if not most cases of CSA are such that practically any amount of coverage would make it easy to determine the victim&#039;s identity. Thus the cases that actually do get coverage are going to skew towards the atypical, such as offenders with large numbers of victims. Because boys tend to be abused by non-household authority figures whereas girls tend to be abused by household members, the coverage is going to skew towards abusers of boys (who tend to have larger numbers of victims simply because their pool of available victims is larger).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another problem with the use of news stories about child sexual abuse (CSA) is that many cases of CSA don&#8217;t make it into the news for a purely ethical reason: the circumstances of many if not most cases of CSA are such that practically any amount of coverage would make it easy to determine the victim&#8217;s identity. Thus the cases that actually do get coverage are going to skew towards the atypical, such as offenders with large numbers of victims. Because boys tend to be abused by non-household authority figures whereas girls tend to be abused by household members, the coverage is going to skew towards abusers of boys (who tend to have larger numbers of victims simply because their pool of available victims is larger).</p>
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		<title>By: homer</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904/comment-page-1#comment-3549</link>
		<dc:creator>homer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 03:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904#comment-3549</guid>
		<description>I can start a journal too! Now let me think of a snazzy title. How about &quot;The International Journal for the Study of People Who Need a Hobby&quot;?  Honestly, why does he spend so much time fretting about the gays?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can start a journal too! Now let me think of a snazzy title. How about &#8220;The International Journal for the Study of People Who Need a Hobby&#8221;?  Honestly, why does he spend so much time fretting about the gays?</p>
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		<title>By: Liadan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904/comment-page-1#comment-3548</link>
		<dc:creator>Liadan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904#comment-3548</guid>
		<description>Clearly this man needs a hobby. Anyone want to volunteer to get Cameron into, say, model train sets? Fly fishing? Anything sufficiently &quot;masculine&quot; and time-consuming so that he&#039;ll quit trying to obsessively codify All Things Homosexually Sordid?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly this man needs a hobby. Anyone want to volunteer to get Cameron into, say, model train sets? Fly fishing? Anything sufficiently &#8220;masculine&#8221; and time-consuming so that he&#8217;ll quit trying to obsessively codify All Things Homosexually Sordid?</p>
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		<title>By: grantdale</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904/comment-page-1#comment-3547</link>
		<dc:creator>grantdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904#comment-3547</guid>
		<description>How ironic -- almost a mirror reason for one of the concerns about the Jones and Yarhouse book...

&lt;i&gt;Anyone familiar with exgay groups knows that harmful outcomes are frequently covered up with many never getting into the media and thus are not captured by newspapers. Who knows how many actual events occur?&lt;/i&gt;

Apart from that... it&#039;s Paul Cameron.

His transparent technique of data mining to arrive at an anti-gay conclusion based on &lt;i&gt;proportional comparisons of two groups&lt;/i&gt; is exactly the same technique used by all others on the anti-gay side... to argue against including gay couples in marriage laws, adoption by gay couples etc etc.

There are those who directly &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,021.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;quote Cameron&lt;/a&gt;... and there are those who use the Cameron technique.

(Warren, himself, is not above doing exactly that when it suits him eg &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.drthrockmorton.com/Testimony.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;[1]&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.drthrockmorton.com/article.asp?id=48&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;[2]&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.drthrockmorton.com/article.asp?id=45&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;[3]&lt;/a&gt; to give but a few at random.)

They all do it, and they all do it because their negative viewpoints -- their allegations -- cannot be sustained against individuals or against individual couples. One cannot argue against people such as those in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aclufl.org/take_action/students/case_of_the_month/1999/overview1299.cfm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Lofton/Croteau&lt;/a&gt; household: instead, one &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.narth.com/docs/RationaleBasisFinal0405.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;slanders&lt;/a&gt; such people by false comparison.

Don&#039;t have a sensible reason why some clearly identified stable long-term gay couples should be denied marriage?

Never mind, &lt;a href=&quot;http://marriagelaw.cua.edu/resources/Marriage%20Database/Complete.cfm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ignore those people&lt;/a&gt; and instead talk about how some nebulous thing called &quot;gay relationships&quot; are &quot;more unstable&quot;  -- as if all types of &quot;gay relationships&quot; as a whole said anything more about pair-bonded gay couples than all types of straight relationships do about straight marriages.

Cameron is simply doing what they are all guilty of. He doesn&#039;t -- cannot -- have any sensible reason why individual gay men and women should not be teachers. Knowing this, he instead sets out to attack them with manipulative &quot;research data&quot; about The Gays(c).

--------------------

Has anyone -- Throckmorton, Jones, or Yarhouse -- yet commented in public about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sexualidentityinstitute.org/about.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;their ISSI colleague Rekers&lt;/a&gt; working alongside Cameron on this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/23/810&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;vanity journal&lt;/a&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How ironic &#8212; almost a mirror reason for one of the concerns about the Jones and Yarhouse book&#8230;</p>
<p><i>Anyone familiar with exgay groups knows that harmful outcomes are frequently covered up with many never getting into the media and thus are not captured by newspapers. Who knows how many actual events occur?</i></p>
<p>Apart from that&#8230; it&#8217;s Paul Cameron.</p>
<p>His transparent technique of data mining to arrive at an anti-gay conclusion based on <i>proportional comparisons of two groups</i> is exactly the same technique used by all others on the anti-gay side&#8230; to argue against including gay couples in marriage laws, adoption by gay couples etc etc.</p>
<p>There are those who directly <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,021.htm" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">quote Cameron</a>&#8230; and there are those who use the Cameron technique.</p>
<p>(Warren, himself, is not above doing exactly that when it suits him eg <a href="http://www.drthrockmorton.com/Testimony.html" rel="nofollow">[1]</a>, <a href="http://www.drthrockmorton.com/article.asp?id=48" rel="nofollow">[2]</a>, <a href="http://www.drthrockmorton.com/article.asp?id=45" rel="nofollow">[3]</a> to give but a few at random.)</p>
<p>They all do it, and they all do it because their negative viewpoints &#8212; their allegations &#8212; cannot be sustained against individuals or against individual couples. One cannot argue against people such as those in the <a href="http://www.aclufl.org/take_action/students/case_of_the_month/1999/overview1299.cfm" rel="nofollow">Lofton/Croteau</a> household: instead, one <a href="http://www.narth.com/docs/RationaleBasisFinal0405.pdf" rel="nofollow">slanders</a> such people by false comparison.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t have a sensible reason why some clearly identified stable long-term gay couples should be denied marriage?</p>
<p>Never mind, <a href="http://marriagelaw.cua.edu/resources/Marriage%20Database/Complete.cfm" rel="nofollow">ignore those people</a> and instead talk about how some nebulous thing called &#8220;gay relationships&#8221; are &#8220;more unstable&#8221;  &#8212; as if all types of &#8220;gay relationships&#8221; as a whole said anything more about pair-bonded gay couples than all types of straight relationships do about straight marriages.</p>
<p>Cameron is simply doing what they are all guilty of. He doesn&#8217;t &#8212; cannot &#8212; have any sensible reason why individual gay men and women should not be teachers. Knowing this, he instead sets out to attack them with manipulative &#8220;research data&#8221; about The Gays(c).</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Has anyone &#8212; Throckmorton, Jones, or Yarhouse &#8212; yet commented in public about <a href="http://www.sexualidentityinstitute.org/about.php" rel="nofollow">their ISSI colleague Rekers</a> working alongside Cameron on this <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/09/23/810" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">vanity journal</a>?</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Lanigan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904/comment-page-1#comment-3533</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Lanigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 16:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904#comment-3533</guid>
		<description>Putting aside Cameron&#039;s conflation of &#039;pedophilia&#039; with &#039;homosexuality&#039; for a moment, let&#039;s examine his logic in a slightly different context.

According to Cameron&#039;s logic: If men in 2 parent families abuse children at a greater rate than women, should men&#039;s rights be curtailed in any way? For instance, should men be denied the right to teach children, or to interact in unsupervised settings with children?

To substantiate my point, The Public Health Agency of Canada found that fathers account for 67% of all substantiated cases of physical abuse of children in 2 parent families. Link to the 2003 study here:

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/cm-vee/csca-ecve/toc_e.html

It is pretty clear to me that Cameron and/or his supporters would not likely assert the curtailment of men&#039;s rights based on this, or any similar survey. They would likely argue that only the rights of child abusers should be curtailed. 

So if the rights of men may not be curtailed - even though they account for a disproportionate amount of child abuse in Canadian families - then why is it OK to deny the rights of homosexuals because of the actions of some pedophiles?

Futhermore, if pedophiles are not the same as homosexuals, then why is it that homosexuals must bear the responsbility for pedophiles?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Putting aside Cameron&#8217;s conflation of &#8216;pedophilia&#8217; with &#8216;homosexuality&#8217; for a moment, let&#8217;s examine his logic in a slightly different context.</p>
<p>According to Cameron&#8217;s logic: If men in 2 parent families abuse children at a greater rate than women, should men&#8217;s rights be curtailed in any way? For instance, should men be denied the right to teach children, or to interact in unsupervised settings with children?</p>
<p>To substantiate my point, The Public Health Agency of Canada found that fathers account for 67% of all substantiated cases of physical abuse of children in 2 parent families. Link to the 2003 study here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/cm-vee/csca-ecve/toc_e.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/cm-vee/csca-ecve/toc_e.html</a></p>
<p>It is pretty clear to me that Cameron and/or his supporters would not likely assert the curtailment of men&#8217;s rights based on this, or any similar survey. They would likely argue that only the rights of child abusers should be curtailed. </p>
<p>So if the rights of men may not be curtailed &#8211; even though they account for a disproportionate amount of child abuse in Canadian families &#8211; then why is it OK to deny the rights of homosexuals because of the actions of some pedophiles?</p>
<p>Futhermore, if pedophiles are not the same as homosexuals, then why is it that homosexuals must bear the responsbility for pedophiles?</p>
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		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904/comment-page-1#comment-3531</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/10/17/904#comment-3531</guid>
		<description>Even if Cameron managed to succeed in his bizarre goal of ridding schools of homosexual teachers, how does he propose to protect kids from the many molesters who remain and that he admits are heterosexual?  &quot;Mutie, the HIV+ Kenyan school teacher who declared he &#039;would not die alone&#039;, [was not] a &#039;pedophile&#039; because he raped 5 elementary girls&quot; -- would that depraved bastard be an acceptable teacher in Cameron&#039;s world?

And there are more self-publications to come from him, I&#039;m sure.  Oh JOY.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if Cameron managed to succeed in his bizarre goal of ridding schools of homosexual teachers, how does he propose to protect kids from the many molesters who remain and that he admits are heterosexual?  &#8220;Mutie, the HIV+ Kenyan school teacher who declared he &#8216;would not die alone&#8217;, [was not] a &#8216;pedophile&#8217; because he raped 5 elementary girls&#8221; &#8212; would that depraved bastard be an acceptable teacher in Cameron&#8217;s world?</p>
<p>And there are more self-publications to come from him, I&#8217;m sure.  Oh JOY.</p>
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