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	<title>Comments on: Richard Cohen Goes To The Movies</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000/comment-page-1#comment-4112</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000#comment-4112</guid>
		<description>The original British QAF was well-written and witty--and there were consequences. The timid character who hooks up and goes on a bad drug trip early in the first season--his equivalent died in the British series, which made (most of) the rest of the characters reassess their choices--in various ways.

The British series made you care about the characters and their fates. The American one didn&#039;t, at least in the few first-season episodes I saw.

The creator of QAF in Britain is now the producer/head writer of the new Dr. Who series--and the spinoff &quot;Torchwood.&quot; One of the delightful things about Torchwood is that the whole Torchwood crew is bisexual and that, within the world of the story, no one seems to find this remarkable.

Richard Cohen will never mention Torchwood in his books--and not just because it&#039;s British TV, but because it will not fit in his worldview. Here is a world, very like our own, where people face tremendous life-threatening problems, and have relationship issues, but why you&#039;re attracted to a guy this week and a girl the next isn&#039;t worth thinking about, much less defining one as normal and the other as pathological and then trying to root out the pathology.

And in this world, while you might get distressed over a co-worker who fancies you--or who doesn&#039;t fancy you but fancies someone else, or who fancies you AND someone else and you don&#039;t know whether you or your competitor will win (and aren&#039;t even sure if you want to win), the gender of who fancies who just isn&#039;t an issue.

And what scares Cohen and all the rest of them is that in some places, this worldview is already real (visit Travis Oliver&#039;s MySpace page and read the blog entry &quot;Metrosexual Etiquette,&quot; and you&#039;ll see what I mean), and they&#039;re just afraid it will spread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The original British QAF was well-written and witty&#8211;and there were consequences. The timid character who hooks up and goes on a bad drug trip early in the first season&#8211;his equivalent died in the British series, which made (most of) the rest of the characters reassess their choices&#8211;in various ways.</p>
<p>The British series made you care about the characters and their fates. The American one didn&#8217;t, at least in the few first-season episodes I saw.</p>
<p>The creator of QAF in Britain is now the producer/head writer of the new Dr. Who series&#8211;and the spinoff &#8220;Torchwood.&#8221; One of the delightful things about Torchwood is that the whole Torchwood crew is bisexual and that, within the world of the story, no one seems to find this remarkable.</p>
<p>Richard Cohen will never mention Torchwood in his books&#8211;and not just because it&#8217;s British TV, but because it will not fit in his worldview. Here is a world, very like our own, where people face tremendous life-threatening problems, and have relationship issues, but why you&#8217;re attracted to a guy this week and a girl the next isn&#8217;t worth thinking about, much less defining one as normal and the other as pathological and then trying to root out the pathology.</p>
<p>And in this world, while you might get distressed over a co-worker who fancies you&#8211;or who doesn&#8217;t fancy you but fancies someone else, or who fancies you AND someone else and you don&#8217;t know whether you or your competitor will win (and aren&#8217;t even sure if you want to win), the gender of who fancies who just isn&#8217;t an issue.</p>
<p>And what scares Cohen and all the rest of them is that in some places, this worldview is already real (visit Travis Oliver&#8217;s MySpace page and read the blog entry &#8220;Metrosexual Etiquette,&#8221; and you&#8217;ll see what I mean), and they&#8217;re just afraid it will spread.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher™</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000/comment-page-1#comment-4099</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher™</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000#comment-4099</guid>
		<description>I remember watching the QAF pilot episode with two friends of mine who aren&#039;t Christians, and during the first sex scene with Brian and Justin, one of them leaned over to me and said, &quot;Should we be watching this?&quot;  Even *they* were embarrassed.

Later, I used to go to a bar in West Hollywood to watch it every Sunday, just as a way to hang out with my friends.  Almost all of us agreed that the writing was atrociously bad, and that the series didn&#039;t represent anything close to our lives, but at least we were guaranteed a few laughs.

During the series&#039; run, I met one of the series&#039; writers, and when I learned he wrote for QAF, I said, &quot;Don&#039;t get me started.&quot;  He raised his hands and said, &quot;I know... I know.  Don&#039;t blame me... Ron and Daniel rewrite every script, for better or for worse.&quot;  I said, &quot;Mostly for worse,&quot; and he laughed.  Even *he* knew the writing was awful, but hey, it was a paycheck.

Plus, QAF was on pay cable, so of course it was going to push the envelope in terms of what it could show, sexually and otherwise.

QAF *is* a wonderful unintentional comedy series, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember watching the QAF pilot episode with two friends of mine who aren&#8217;t Christians, and during the first sex scene with Brian and Justin, one of them leaned over to me and said, &#8220;Should we be watching this?&#8221;  Even *they* were embarrassed.</p>
<p>Later, I used to go to a bar in West Hollywood to watch it every Sunday, just as a way to hang out with my friends.  Almost all of us agreed that the writing was atrociously bad, and that the series didn&#8217;t represent anything close to our lives, but at least we were guaranteed a few laughs.</p>
<p>During the series&#8217; run, I met one of the series&#8217; writers, and when I learned he wrote for QAF, I said, &#8220;Don&#8217;t get me started.&#8221;  He raised his hands and said, &#8220;I know&#8230; I know.  Don&#8217;t blame me&#8230; Ron and Daniel rewrite every script, for better or for worse.&#8221;  I said, &#8220;Mostly for worse,&#8221; and he laughed.  Even *he* knew the writing was awful, but hey, it was a paycheck.</p>
<p>Plus, QAF was on pay cable, so of course it was going to push the envelope in terms of what it could show, sexually and otherwise.</p>
<p>QAF *is* a wonderful unintentional comedy series, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000/comment-page-1#comment-4091</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000#comment-4091</guid>
		<description>I stopped watching QAF pretty early on because it was a trite and ridiculous soap opera.  I didn&#039;t and still don&#039;t know anybody who&#039;s life remotely resembles the characters on the show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I stopped watching QAF pretty early on because it was a trite and ridiculous soap opera.  I didn&#8217;t and still don&#8217;t know anybody who&#8217;s life remotely resembles the characters on the show.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000/comment-page-1#comment-4090</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000#comment-4090</guid>
		<description>Queer as Folk...
This plays right into the hand of Cohen
&quot;These two Showtime series depict the ephemeral lifestyle of men and women engaged in homosexual activity&quot;
Promiscous, only for the young, atheist... Does this depict the life of MOST gay ppl, like Cohen insinuates? I don&#039;t know... if it does, its bonus pts for Cohen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Queer as Folk&#8230;<br />
This plays right into the hand of Cohen<br />
&#8220;These two Showtime series depict the ephemeral lifestyle of men and women engaged in homosexual activity&#8221;<br />
Promiscous, only for the young, atheist&#8230; Does this depict the life of MOST gay ppl, like Cohen insinuates? I don&#8217;t know&#8230; if it does, its bonus pts for Cohen.</p>
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		<title>By: Boo</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000/comment-page-1#comment-4084</link>
		<dc:creator>Boo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000#comment-4084</guid>
		<description>When Night Is Falling- the lovers end up running away to (yes!) join the circus! Nuff said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Night Is Falling- the lovers end up running away to (yes!) join the circus! Nuff said.</p>
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		<title>By: quo mark II</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000/comment-page-1#comment-4077</link>
		<dc:creator>quo mark II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000#comment-4077</guid>
		<description>Jim,

For what it is worth, I saw Brokeback Mountain twice. I also read the short story it was based upon, and parts of the film-script (I had it with me while watching Brokeback for the second time because I was having trouble understanding Ennis&#039;s mumble).

I can see that you aren&#039;t going to agree with me about this. I don&#039;t want to get into a long argument about it. I don&#039;t think Brokeback is necessarily similar to films about Anne Frank, or to most stories that happen not to have happy endings. It&#039;s its own thing. 

I won&#039;t repeat points I&#039;ve already made, but I&#039;ll note a couple of other things about Brokeback Mountain. One is that Ennis and Jack both have hostile, rejecting fathers, and we all know what that&#039;s supposed to mean, don&#039;t we? Warren Throckmorton certainly does:

http://www.narth.com/docs/brokeback2.html

Finally, is there any special reason why Jack&#039;s murder happens right at the beginning of 1980s, just as the AIDS epidemic was starting? It&#039;s difficult to see why Jack has to get murdered then, rather than at some point during the 1970s, unless they&#039;re trying to send us a message. Whatever message that may be, it&#039;s a troubling one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,</p>
<p>For what it is worth, I saw Brokeback Mountain twice. I also read the short story it was based upon, and parts of the film-script (I had it with me while watching Brokeback for the second time because I was having trouble understanding Ennis&#8217;s mumble).</p>
<p>I can see that you aren&#8217;t going to agree with me about this. I don&#8217;t want to get into a long argument about it. I don&#8217;t think Brokeback is necessarily similar to films about Anne Frank, or to most stories that happen not to have happy endings. It&#8217;s its own thing. </p>
<p>I won&#8217;t repeat points I&#8217;ve already made, but I&#8217;ll note a couple of other things about Brokeback Mountain. One is that Ennis and Jack both have hostile, rejecting fathers, and we all know what that&#8217;s supposed to mean, don&#8217;t we? Warren Throckmorton certainly does:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.narth.com/docs/brokeback2.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.narth.com/docs/brokeback2.html</a></p>
<p>Finally, is there any special reason why Jack&#8217;s murder happens right at the beginning of 1980s, just as the AIDS epidemic was starting? It&#8217;s difficult to see why Jack has to get murdered then, rather than at some point during the 1970s, unless they&#8217;re trying to send us a message. Whatever message that may be, it&#8217;s a troubling one.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000/comment-page-1#comment-4073</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 04:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000#comment-4073</guid>
		<description>Two foreign films:
1. Bear Cub. An out gay man becomes an accidental parent to his nephew, comes to like it, then has the sone taken away from him. The story is a little movie-of-the-week, but the men at the center of it are real.

2. 20 Centimeters. Now HERE is out, brazen transexuality. The main character dumps her stunningly gorgeous new boyfriend--in part because he has no manners, no ambition and lives at home with his parents, and in part because he&#039;s far to enamored of the one part of her body she&#039;s trying to raise enough money to have removed. Despite financial problems, heartbreak, and being forced to live on the edges (and hustling to get by), the main character&#039;s belief in herself as a woman carries the day and emblazons the movie with infectious spirit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two foreign films:<br />
1. Bear Cub. An out gay man becomes an accidental parent to his nephew, comes to like it, then has the sone taken away from him. The story is a little movie-of-the-week, but the men at the center of it are real.</p>
<p>2. 20 Centimeters. Now HERE is out, brazen transexuality. The main character dumps her stunningly gorgeous new boyfriend&#8211;in part because he has no manners, no ambition and lives at home with his parents, and in part because he&#8217;s far to enamored of the one part of her body she&#8217;s trying to raise enough money to have removed. Despite financial problems, heartbreak, and being forced to live on the edges (and hustling to get by), the main character&#8217;s belief in herself as a woman carries the day and emblazons the movie with infectious spirit.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000/comment-page-1#comment-4069</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 02:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000#comment-4069</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed it a lot, myself. The stereotypes were obviously that. It was just positive, and the ordinary guy got the boy. Also nice that it avoided THAT stereotype.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed it a lot, myself. The stereotypes were obviously that. It was just positive, and the ordinary guy got the boy. Also nice that it avoided THAT stereotype.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000/comment-page-1#comment-4067</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 02:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000#comment-4067</guid>
		<description>Zeke,

I didn&#039;t much like Mambo Italiano.  It was poorly written and played too heavily on stereotypes.  

Nonetheless, it certainly wasn&#039;t an advertisement for the success of the ex-gay industry.  Perhaps you failed to notice that Nino went on &quot;camping trips&quot; with his &quot;buddy&quot; during his happily ever after marriage.  It was pretty clear that the audience was supposed to recognize that Nino did not rid himself of his attractions but instead was behaving stealthily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zeke,</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t much like Mambo Italiano.  It was poorly written and played too heavily on stereotypes.  </p>
<p>Nonetheless, it certainly wasn&#8217;t an advertisement for the success of the ex-gay industry.  Perhaps you failed to notice that Nino went on &#8220;camping trips&#8221; with his &#8220;buddy&#8221; during his happily ever after marriage.  It was pretty clear that the audience was supposed to recognize that Nino did not rid himself of his attractions but instead was behaving stealthily.</p>
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		<title>By: Zeke</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000/comment-page-1#comment-4066</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/11/10/1000#comment-4066</guid>
		<description>I thought Mambo Italiano was absolutely horrible and was one of the most offensive gay plots that I&#039;ve seen.  It was basically a two hour advertisement for the &quot;ex-gay&quot; industry.  Of course it was the hot, masculine character who &quot;went straight&quot; and lived &quot;happily&quot; ever after.  I can&#039;t imagine anyone thinking that that movie had a positive message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought Mambo Italiano was absolutely horrible and was one of the most offensive gay plots that I&#8217;ve seen.  It was basically a two hour advertisement for the &#8220;ex-gay&#8221; industry.  Of course it was the hot, masculine character who &#8220;went straight&#8221; and lived &#8220;happily&#8221; ever after.  I can&#8217;t imagine anyone thinking that that movie had a positive message.</p>
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