Comments on: Video: Inside “Love Won Out” http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/12/16/1165 News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric Sat, 18 May 2013 21:32:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Dotti/Roby BerrySapp http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/12/16/1165/comment-page-1#comment-5044 Dotti/Roby BerrySapp Thu, 20 Dec 2007 02:41:21 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/12/16/1165#comment-5044 Dear Doug, Please note that Nancy didn't "pray for the well-being for her child." If that were true, she would simply leave it up to her daughter, Anne, and God. Nancy prayed that God would intervene to change Anne's character and destiny (conforming to Nancy's definition of "blessing.") This makes the assumption that there is something wrong with Anne's character and destiny. Nancy was praying to alter her child, and that is not loving if Anne is bringing no harm to another human. Nancy assumes that there is "something inherently wrong" with loving another person of the same gender. If I am being loving to my spouse, Roby, and not only bringing no harm, but empowering her and our relationship, my character and destiny do not need changing. And the "suffering" that many of these people are experiencing is not because they are gay, but because they are told they are wrong for being gay by some (not all) religious institutions. If I were to apply this to heterosexuals, it would like me telling them that they are wrong for being that way, and that they are suffering, and that they would be happier if they are gay. And then if we prayed for the heterosexual person to be gay, the inference is that this would be "loving." I don't find anything loving about trying to make someone be who they are not. Let's suppose that a gay person's character is stellar, and through their own personal relationship with God and/or the divine, they are certain that their destiny is intact in a positive way. Why should someone else tell them different? I feel certain that you realize Nancy's stance is not the stance of many theologians and churches. (please go to this link to read what Rev. Dr. Lisa Davison, Professor of Old Testament, has written about "What the Bible Says/Doesn't Say about Homosexuality." http://www.gayintostraightamerica.com/235.html) In case you didn't go to the link provided in our initial post and read our personal synopsis of going inside FOTF, and having Roby's mother there with us, please ready the exerpt below about this specific situation with Nancy speaking. "Roby, crying out in pain, used those breaks to communicate with her mother, Miriam, who was in attendance, saying “They are telling lies, Mom. It breaks my heart that you believe them. Do you really believe that my character and destiny needs changing?” This occurred after Nancy Heche closed her talk by asking people to bless the GLBT persons they know. She defined “blessing” as asking God to intervene in the lives of GLBT persons and change their character and destiny. Roby’s mother sat there with her hands reaching out to receive the blessing and then gave it back as she was instructed, one of the sheep being herded each moment of the day. To Miriam’s credit, she later sought out Roby to explain that wasn’t her intent when she joined in the “blessing.” If you are Roby, however, and you have just witnessed this as you sit by your mother, what else would you think? It would be like saying “Raise your hand if you believe in Santa Claus.” If you raised your hand, I would assume that you do believe in Santa Claus (why would I assume that you are lying?) If I then shared with you afterwards that I don’t believe in Santa Claus, and had not since I was about ten years old, and was wondering if you could explain yourself, and you seemed “stunned” that I would think that you believed in Santa Claus simply because you raised your hand acknowledging your belief, I would feel confused. That would be my description of why this interaction with Miriam caused confusion for Roby. While we agree with your right to disagree, we cannot find the "love" in Nancy approach. blessings on your journey, dotti & roby www.StandUPspeakOUT.com Dear Doug,
Please note that Nancy didn’t “pray for the well-being for her child.” If that were true, she would simply leave it up to her daughter, Anne, and God. Nancy prayed that God would intervene to change Anne’s character and destiny (conforming to Nancy’s definition of “blessing.”) This makes the assumption that there is something wrong with Anne’s character and destiny. Nancy was praying to alter her child, and that is not loving if Anne is bringing no harm to another human. Nancy assumes that there is “something inherently wrong” with loving another person of the same gender. If I am being loving to my spouse, Roby, and not only bringing no harm, but empowering her and our relationship, my character and destiny do not need changing. And the “suffering” that many of these people are experiencing is not because they are gay, but because they are told they are wrong for being gay by some (not all) religious institutions. If I were to apply this to heterosexuals, it would like me telling them that they are wrong for being that way, and that they are suffering, and that they would be happier if they are gay. And then if we prayed for the heterosexual person to be gay, the inference is that this would be “loving.” I don’t find anything loving about trying to make someone be who they are not. Let’s suppose that a gay person’s character is stellar, and through their own personal relationship with God and/or the divine, they are certain that their destiny is intact in a positive way. Why should someone else tell them different?

I feel certain that you realize Nancy’s stance is not the stance of many theologians and churches. (please go to this link to read what Rev. Dr. Lisa Davison, Professor of Old Testament, has written about “What the Bible Says/Doesn’t Say about Homosexuality.” http://www.gayintostraightamerica.com/235.html)

In case you didn’t go to the link provided in our initial post and read our personal synopsis of going inside FOTF, and having Roby’s mother there with us, please ready the exerpt below about this specific situation with Nancy speaking.

“Roby, crying out in pain, used those breaks to communicate with her mother, Miriam, who was in attendance, saying “They are telling lies, Mom. It breaks my heart that you believe them. Do you really believe that my character and destiny needs changing?” This occurred after Nancy Heche closed her talk by asking people to bless the GLBT persons they know. She defined “blessing” as asking God to intervene in the lives of GLBT persons and change their character and destiny. Roby’s mother sat there with her hands reaching out to receive the blessing and then gave it back as she was instructed, one of the sheep being herded each moment of the day. To Miriam’s credit, she later sought out Roby to explain that wasn’t her intent when she joined in the “blessing.” If you are Roby, however, and you have just witnessed this as you sit by your mother, what else would you think? It would be like saying “Raise your hand if you believe in Santa Claus.” If you raised your hand, I would assume that you do believe in Santa Claus (why would I assume that you are lying?) If I then shared with you afterwards that I don’t believe in Santa Claus, and had not since I was about ten years old, and was wondering if you could explain yourself, and you seemed “stunned” that I would think that you believed in Santa Claus simply because you raised your hand acknowledging your belief, I would feel confused. That would be my description of why this interaction with Miriam caused confusion for Roby.

While we agree with your right to disagree, we cannot find the “love” in Nancy approach.

blessings on your journey,
dotti & roby
http://www.StandUPspeakOUT.com

]]> By: Doug Besharov http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/12/16/1165/comment-page-1#comment-4997 Doug Besharov Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:31:15 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/12/16/1165#comment-4997 "Bizarre"? That she prayed for the well-being of her daughter is "bizarre"? I found her words full of love and warmth for her child and others suffering a similar situation. “Bizarre”? That she prayed for the well-being of her daughter is “bizarre”? I found her words full of love and warmth for her child and others suffering a similar situation.

]]> By: Timothy Kincaid http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/12/16/1165/comment-page-1#comment-4996 Timothy Kincaid Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:27:51 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/12/16/1165#comment-4996 Ladies, Thanks for the link. And thank you too for your efforts to reach out to Focus in love not anger. OH, and now Melissa cannot say she's never met a gay person that wasn't molested. Ladies,

Thanks for the link. And thank you too for your efforts to reach out to Focus in love not anger.

OH, and now Melissa cannot say she’s never met a gay person that wasn’t molested.

]]> By: Dotti/Roby BerrySapp http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/12/16/1165/comment-page-1#comment-4992 Dotti/Roby BerrySapp Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:32:47 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2007/12/16/1165#comment-4992 additional website: www.StandUPspeakOUT.com Hi Jim, I can't believe you just posted this yesterday. I came across it accidentally as I was reviewing some other info. Ironically, Roby (my spouse) and I have had a lot of contact with Focus on the Family and Love Won Out. Please visit the http://www.gayintostraightamerica.com/index.php?page_id=12&newsletter_id=7 You will also be able to click on the link that tells about us going inside of the Love Won Out Conference in Seattle, with Roby's mother in attendance. Imagine having your mom there, and reaching out (as Nancy encouraged everyone to do with their hands) to "bless" their loved one. We have been going inside Focus on the Family for the last two years, getting to know people inside, such as Diane (who is in charge of the Welcome Center) and Den (head of security). We would appreciate you taking time to read about some of our experiences. We can be reached at dotti@StandUpspeakOUT.com and roby@StandUPspeakOUT.com. Blessings, dotti and roby additional website:
http://www.StandUPspeakOUT.com

Hi Jim,
I can’t believe you just posted this yesterday. I came across it accidentally as I was reviewing some other info. Ironically, Roby (my spouse) and I have had a lot of contact with Focus on the Family and Love Won Out. Please visit the http://www.gayintostraightamerica.com/index.php?page_id=12&newsletter_id=7
You will also be able to click on the link that tells about us going inside of the Love Won Out Conference in Seattle, with Roby’s mother in attendance. Imagine having your mom there, and reaching out (as Nancy encouraged everyone to do with their hands) to “bless” their loved one. We have been going inside Focus on the Family for the last two years, getting to know people inside, such as Diane (who is in charge of the Welcome Center) and Den (head of security). We would appreciate you taking time to read about some of our experiences. We can be reached at dotti@StandUpspeakOUT.com and roby@StandUPspeakOUT.com. Blessings, dotti and roby

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