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	<title>Comments on: Photographer Challenged for Denying Services to Lesbian Couple</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493/comment-page-2#comment-134339</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2012 11:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493#comment-134339</guid>
		<description>This case was won because the offense claimed a non-sequitor similarity; a black person at a restaurant is not the same as a gay couple demanding you sit there taking photos of them kissing.

Several examples to think about, when this case or one like it moves to the Supreme Court, which certainly one will:

1) A female can refuse to do her abortion by or choose to be seen by a MALE OB/GYN.
The male OB/GYN must perform his services on any one that steps into his office, as long as it is legal and she is of sound mind.

2) A taxi cab driven by a white man can not refuse to pick up a black man.
A taxi cab driven by a black man can not refuse to pick up a white man.
A white man can refuse to be picked up by a black driver, and turn him away.
A black man can refuse to be picked up by a white driver, and turn him away.
In the latter two situations, no one can be sued for discrimination. 
Is discrimination happening? Yes--but not on the side of the business.

3)In several locales, prostitution is legal.
Can a female prositute refuse to service her ex-husband? Yes.
Can she refuse to service a black man? Certainly.
Can she refuse to service a Chinese man because of his attitude? Of course.
Can she refuse to service a white guy in a wheel chair because she doesn&#039;t like men with no legs? I should say so! 

4) Gay people are not a PROTECTED CLASS. Black people are. Smokers are not a protected class. Not accepting smokers in your service does not mean you do not accept black men. It means you do not accept smokers.

5) You can turn anyone away from your business because of &quot;loss of trust&quot;; especially in a doctor-patient relationship. This case has a loss of trust because taking photos is something intimate. Viewing the photos is also something intimate. If either party does not want to do this, the service is compromised.

6) Some &quot;services&quot; are more personal than others.
Buying a shirt at Wal-Mart is not the same as screwing someone cause you are a prostitute. 
Photographers too, provide a personal service.

The jury here was deceived by a good lawyer when the defense counsel was simply ill-prepared. This case would get stomped on by the Supreme Court. We are allowed to have our personal preferences, religions, and hates.

I don&#039;t mind gay people. This female &quot;couple&quot; here are not gay. They are ligitious faggots. I would close up shop and not pay them a dime.

Photographers:
Protect yourselves in the future:
When a gay couple calls and wants photos done. Tell them &quot;Yes&quot;; you&#039;ll do it. However, state &quot;I disagree with the gay lifestyle&quot;. Then take shit photos.

This whole case reaks and the Constitution is hanging by a thread. These are truly the latter-days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This case was won because the offense claimed a non-sequitor similarity; a black person at a restaurant is not the same as a gay couple demanding you sit there taking photos of them kissing.</p>
<p>Several examples to think about, when this case or one like it moves to the Supreme Court, which certainly one will:</p>
<p>1) A female can refuse to do her abortion by or choose to be seen by a MALE OB/GYN.<br />
The male OB/GYN must perform his services on any one that steps into his office, as long as it is legal and she is of sound mind.</p>
<p>2) A taxi cab driven by a white man can not refuse to pick up a black man.<br />
A taxi cab driven by a black man can not refuse to pick up a white man.<br />
A white man can refuse to be picked up by a black driver, and turn him away.<br />
A black man can refuse to be picked up by a white driver, and turn him away.<br />
In the latter two situations, no one can be sued for discrimination.<br />
Is discrimination happening? Yes&#8211;but not on the side of the business.</p>
<p>3)In several locales, prostitution is legal.<br />
Can a female prositute refuse to service her ex-husband? Yes.<br />
Can she refuse to service a black man? Certainly.<br />
Can she refuse to service a Chinese man because of his attitude? Of course.<br />
Can she refuse to service a white guy in a wheel chair because she doesn&#8217;t like men with no legs? I should say so! </p>
<p>4) Gay people are not a PROTECTED CLASS. Black people are. Smokers are not a protected class. Not accepting smokers in your service does not mean you do not accept black men. It means you do not accept smokers.</p>
<p>5) You can turn anyone away from your business because of &#8220;loss of trust&#8221;; especially in a doctor-patient relationship. This case has a loss of trust because taking photos is something intimate. Viewing the photos is also something intimate. If either party does not want to do this, the service is compromised.</p>
<p>6) Some &#8220;services&#8221; are more personal than others.<br />
Buying a shirt at Wal-Mart is not the same as screwing someone cause you are a prostitute.<br />
Photographers too, provide a personal service.</p>
<p>The jury here was deceived by a good lawyer when the defense counsel was simply ill-prepared. This case would get stomped on by the Supreme Court. We are allowed to have our personal preferences, religions, and hates.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mind gay people. This female &#8220;couple&#8221; here are not gay. They are ligitious faggots. I would close up shop and not pay them a dime.</p>
<p>Photographers:<br />
Protect yourselves in the future:<br />
When a gay couple calls and wants photos done. Tell them &#8220;Yes&#8221;; you&#8217;ll do it. However, state &#8220;I disagree with the gay lifestyle&#8221;. Then take shit photos.</p>
<p>This whole case reaks and the Constitution is hanging by a thread. These are truly the latter-days.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Rush</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493/comment-page-2#comment-125595</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Rush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2012 12:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493#comment-125595</guid>
		<description>James, it would have been much more accurate to say, &lt;i&gt;&quot;The first amendment was created to protect the people from religion, not the other way around. The day we start forcing businesses and people to do even more things against their own choice is the day our country goes goes straight into accelerated decline.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

In today&#039;s world, the people whining about losing their coveted religious freedom and liberty are really whining about losing their freedom and liberty to trample over everyone who doesn&#039;t believe as they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, it would have been much more accurate to say, <i>&#8220;The first amendment was created to protect the people from religion, not the other way around. The day we start forcing businesses and people to do even more things against their own choice is the day our country goes goes straight into accelerated decline.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>In today&#8217;s world, the people whining about losing their coveted religious freedom and liberty are really whining about losing their freedom and liberty to trample over everyone who doesn&#8217;t believe as they do.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493/comment-page-2#comment-125582</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2012 07:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493#comment-125582</guid>
		<description>Keep going Elane. It&#039;s sad to see what our country is coming to. You were not being discriminatory at all. Your rights to property and liberty are being violated by the government. The first amendment was created to protect religion from government, not the other way around. The day we start forcing businesses and people to do things against their own choice is the day our country goes straight to hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep going Elane. It&#8217;s sad to see what our country is coming to. You were not being discriminatory at all. Your rights to property and liberty are being violated by the government. The first amendment was created to protect religion from government, not the other way around. The day we start forcing businesses and people to do things against their own choice is the day our country goes straight to hell.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493/comment-page-2#comment-50932</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 18:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493#comment-50932</guid>
		<description>Mike,

I don&#039;t know.  I&#039;ve not had success in my efforts to find either follow-up information or the right authorities with whom to inquire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know.  I&#8217;ve not had success in my efforts to find either follow-up information or the right authorities with whom to inquire.</p>
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		<title>By: mike penney</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493/comment-page-2#comment-50897</link>
		<dc:creator>mike penney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 21:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493#comment-50897</guid>
		<description>Whatever happened to the appeal on this case?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever happened to the appeal on this case?</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493/comment-page-2#comment-38518</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493#comment-38518</guid>
		<description>I am a lesbian.  I believe in equal opportunity and equal rights for all.  Still, as Timothy Kincaid wrote above, &quot;Does every slight require punishment?&quot;  No, not when the slight appears to have been sought out.

Vanessa Willock is a University of New Mexico staffer, an EEO Compliance Representative with the Office of Equal Opportunity, where she investigates claims of discrimination and sexual harassment.

I cannot believe that Vanessa Willock innocently inquired about the services of Elane Photography.  The lesbians and gay men I know try to hire LGBT and LGBT-friendly professionals.  It&#039;s not hard to find them.

I think that Vanessa Willock deliberately pursued rejection on the basis of sexual orientation so she could take this business before the New Mexico Human Right Commission.  It was a set-up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a lesbian.  I believe in equal opportunity and equal rights for all.  Still, as Timothy Kincaid wrote above, &#8220;Does every slight require punishment?&#8221;  No, not when the slight appears to have been sought out.</p>
<p>Vanessa Willock is a University of New Mexico staffer, an EEO Compliance Representative with the Office of Equal Opportunity, where she investigates claims of discrimination and sexual harassment.</p>
<p>I cannot believe that Vanessa Willock innocently inquired about the services of Elane Photography.  The lesbians and gay men I know try to hire LGBT and LGBT-friendly professionals.  It&#8217;s not hard to find them.</p>
<p>I think that Vanessa Willock deliberately pursued rejection on the basis of sexual orientation so she could take this business before the New Mexico Human Right Commission.  It was a set-up.</p>
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		<title>By: Equality Loudoun &#187; What&#8217;s really at stake in the Elane case?</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493/comment-page-2#comment-9279</link>
		<dc:creator>Equality Loudoun &#187; What&#8217;s really at stake in the Elane case?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493#comment-9279</guid>
		<description>[...] be able to sort these things out without taking up positions behind the barricades. Here is a real-life example of how that reality can be handled 1) without violating the law and 2) without being insulting. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] be able to sort these things out without taking up positions behind the barricades. Here is a real-life example of how that reality can be handled 1) without violating the law and 2) without being insulting. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493/comment-page-2#comment-9080</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493#comment-9080</guid>
		<description>Ron,

You needn&#039;t worry about Elaine Huguenin.  Not a cent is coming from her pocket.  This is a cause célèbre for anti-gay activists and her legal services are being provided free of charge by the Alliance Defense Fund.

If, however, you wish to contribute to an organization that advocates in opposition to equality under the law for gay persons and that seeks to advance discrimination, I&#039;m certain that there are quite a few that will gladly take your contributions.  I won&#039;t be providing a list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron,</p>
<p>You needn&#8217;t worry about Elaine Huguenin.  Not a cent is coming from her pocket.  This is a cause célèbre for anti-gay activists and her legal services are being provided free of charge by the Alliance Defense Fund.</p>
<p>If, however, you wish to contribute to an organization that advocates in opposition to equality under the law for gay persons and that seeks to advance discrimination, I&#8217;m certain that there are quite a few that will gladly take your contributions.  I won&#8217;t be providing a list.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493/comment-page-2#comment-9079</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493#comment-9079</guid>
		<description>I would like to know where I can send a donation for Elaine Photography to help with legal fees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to know where I can send a donation for Elaine Photography to help with legal fees.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493/comment-page-2#comment-9075</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/02/28/1493#comment-9075</guid>
		<description>Ottoman

I particularly dislike those who come with anti-gay bias and homophobic presumptions but try to hide them behind a pretense of openmindedness and objectivity.

You clearly have a strong desire to assume that gay persons are more &quot;flamboyant&quot; and that gay persons in a pride parade behave more inappropiately than heterosexuals at Mardi Gras.  And nothing we say will dissuade you from your presumptions.

So I won&#039;t try.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ottoman</p>
<p>I particularly dislike those who come with anti-gay bias and homophobic presumptions but try to hide them behind a pretense of openmindedness and objectivity.</p>
<p>You clearly have a strong desire to assume that gay persons are more &#8220;flamboyant&#8221; and that gay persons in a pride parade behave more inappropiately than heterosexuals at Mardi Gras.  And nothing we say will dissuade you from your presumptions.</p>
<p>So I won&#8217;t try.</p>
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