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	<title>Comments on: More Facts about Elane Photography</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 11:45:05 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: New Mexico&#8217;s Frightening Court Ruling That Demands Christian Photographers Must Shoot Gay Weddings &#187; Gay USA Pages</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805/comment-page-1#comment-127431</link>
		<dc:creator>New Mexico&#8217;s Frightening Court Ruling That Demands Christian Photographers Must Shoot Gay Weddings &#187; Gay USA Pages</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805#comment-127431</guid>
		<description>[...] in being paid to photograph her commitment ceremony to Misty Pascottini. But Elane&#8217;s owners declined, pointing to their Christian beliefs that didn&#8217;t approve of homosexuality, let alone [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in being paid to photograph her commitment ceremony to Misty Pascottini. But Elane&#8217;s owners declined, pointing to their Christian beliefs that didn&#8217;t approve of homosexuality, let alone [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jessie</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805/comment-page-1#comment-125400</link>
		<dc:creator>jessie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805#comment-125400</guid>
		<description>I think she was baited. traditional weddings, stated clearly.
several other things such as political photographs and singer’s portfolios, as in non weddings stuff, like birthdays, soccer games... etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think she was baited. traditional weddings, stated clearly.<br />
several other things such as political photographs and singer’s portfolios, as in non weddings stuff, like birthdays, soccer games&#8230; etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805/comment-page-1#comment-125318</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2012 01:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805#comment-125318</guid>
		<description>I guess now you know how it feels to have to follow the business protocols of dealing with the public which includes gay folk like me.  It sounds like a hard fact for you to have to swallow.  I&#039;m glad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess now you know how it feels to have to follow the business protocols of dealing with the public which includes gay folk like me.  It sounds like a hard fact for you to have to swallow.  I&#8217;m glad</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805/comment-page-1#comment-70572</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805#comment-70572</guid>
		<description>Robert said &quot;I hold a different opinion than you, and therefore oppose you. You have harmed no one with your opinions. Does that mean I hate you? Does that mean that you hate Neil and Bob? Of course not. Who are you to question someone’s motives?&quot;.

Robert when you oppose a core feature of a person you hate the essence of that person.  Yes I hate Neil/Bob just as I hate anyone who harms innocent people.  I am a rational person and that qualifies me to question your motives.

Robert said &quot;Furthermore, who determines what is a harmless perversion worthy of mandatory acceptance? NAMBLA members think their actions are harmless, but the vast majority of people disagree. Is it what the majority of people think is harmless? Minority groups decry the “tyranny of the majority” so I doubt that this would be the accepted standard.&quot;.

We rely on mental health experts and the medical profession to determine what is a harmless &quot;perversion&quot;.  All major mental and physical health organizations agree that gayness is harmless and that pedophelia is harmful.  What qualifications do you have to require that your opinion supercede their&#039;s?

Robert said &quot;We’re supposed to love mass murderers.&quot;.

Christians like you have bastardized the meaning of love.  To love means to get deep pleasure out of someone&#039;s pressence, to feel joy from their personality.  Christians don&#039;t in any true sense of the word love mass murderers, that&#039;s just Christianist BS.  What you refer to as &quot;love&quot; is not love, it is a desire to command and control.

Robert said &quot;If a child steals a piece of candy, the mother does not condone it. The mother will even punish the child. But this does not mean that the mother does not love the child.&quot;.

This idea that our actions are divorced from who we are as people is more christianist BS.  Our actions reflect a part of who we are.  If a mother does not condone a child&#039;s action then she does not condone part of who that child is.   There may be other aspects of the child that the mother love but make no mistake about it, she hates that aspect of the child that gave rise to the theft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert said &#8220;I hold a different opinion than you, and therefore oppose you. You have harmed no one with your opinions. Does that mean I hate you? Does that mean that you hate Neil and Bob? Of course not. Who are you to question someone’s motives?&#8221;.</p>
<p>Robert when you oppose a core feature of a person you hate the essence of that person.  Yes I hate Neil/Bob just as I hate anyone who harms innocent people.  I am a rational person and that qualifies me to question your motives.</p>
<p>Robert said &#8220;Furthermore, who determines what is a harmless perversion worthy of mandatory acceptance? NAMBLA members think their actions are harmless, but the vast majority of people disagree. Is it what the majority of people think is harmless? Minority groups decry the “tyranny of the majority” so I doubt that this would be the accepted standard.&#8221;.</p>
<p>We rely on mental health experts and the medical profession to determine what is a harmless &#8220;perversion&#8221;.  All major mental and physical health organizations agree that gayness is harmless and that pedophelia is harmful.  What qualifications do you have to require that your opinion supercede their&#8217;s?</p>
<p>Robert said &#8220;We’re supposed to love mass murderers.&#8221;.</p>
<p>Christians like you have bastardized the meaning of love.  To love means to get deep pleasure out of someone&#8217;s pressence, to feel joy from their personality.  Christians don&#8217;t in any true sense of the word love mass murderers, that&#8217;s just Christianist BS.  What you refer to as &#8220;love&#8221; is not love, it is a desire to command and control.</p>
<p>Robert said &#8220;If a child steals a piece of candy, the mother does not condone it. The mother will even punish the child. But this does not mean that the mother does not love the child.&#8221;.</p>
<p>This idea that our actions are divorced from who we are as people is more christianist BS.  Our actions reflect a part of who we are.  If a mother does not condone a child&#8217;s action then she does not condone part of who that child is.   There may be other aspects of the child that the mother love but make no mistake about it, she hates that aspect of the child that gave rise to the theft.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805/comment-page-1#comment-70571</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805#comment-70571</guid>
		<description>Robert,

Some advice:  Arguments in favor of freedom have merit. But the moment you dredge up NAMBLA you lose all credibility and are just written off as a hater.  It&#039;s pretty much the same as a gay person bringing up Fred Phelps.

You may want to keep that in mind for further consideration.  Because once I got to your NAMBLA mention, I realized that you were not here to discuss issues of merit but just to declare your contempt for others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert,</p>
<p>Some advice:  Arguments in favor of freedom have merit. But the moment you dredge up NAMBLA you lose all credibility and are just written off as a hater.  It&#8217;s pretty much the same as a gay person bringing up Fred Phelps.</p>
<p>You may want to keep that in mind for further consideration.  Because once I got to your NAMBLA mention, I realized that you were not here to discuss issues of merit but just to declare your contempt for others.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert (not Bob)</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805/comment-page-1#comment-70564</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert (not Bob)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805#comment-70564</guid>
		<description>Jen said: &quot;I thought “Christians” were supposed to love everyone...&quot; This is not exactly true. The commandments state that we&#039;re supposed to &quot;love one another&quot; (brethren in Christ) and to &quot;love [our] enemies.&quot; But love of a person and condoning/acceptance of actions are two completely different things. We&#039;re supposed to love mass murderers. We&#039;re supposed to love drunkards, prostitutes, slanderers, etc... But nowhere in the Bible does Jesus, or anyone else, say that we are supposed to accept everyone&#039;s behavior. We&#039;re supposed to love one another as Christ loves us. If a child steals a piece of candy, the mother does not condone it. The mother will even punish the child. But this does not mean that the mother does not love the child. Quite the opposite! It shows that she really does love the child and has the best interests for the child in mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jen said: &#8220;I thought “Christians” were supposed to love everyone&#8230;&#8221; This is not exactly true. The commandments state that we&#8217;re supposed to &#8220;love one another&#8221; (brethren in Christ) and to &#8220;love [our] enemies.&#8221; But love of a person and condoning/acceptance of actions are two completely different things. We&#8217;re supposed to love mass murderers. We&#8217;re supposed to love drunkards, prostitutes, slanderers, etc&#8230; But nowhere in the Bible does Jesus, or anyone else, say that we are supposed to accept everyone&#8217;s behavior. We&#8217;re supposed to love one another as Christ loves us. If a child steals a piece of candy, the mother does not condone it. The mother will even punish the child. But this does not mean that the mother does not love the child. Quite the opposite! It shows that she really does love the child and has the best interests for the child in mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert (not Bob)</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805/comment-page-1#comment-70562</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert (not Bob)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805#comment-70562</guid>
		<description>Priya: &quot;when you oppose those who harm no one hatred is the only possible reason why.&quot; I hold a different opinion than you, and therefore oppose you. You have harmed no one with your opinions. Does that mean I hate you? Does that mean that you hate Neil and Bob? Of course not. Who are you to question someone&#039;s motives? 

Furthermore, who determines what is a harmless perversion worthy of mandatory acceptance? NAMBLA members think their actions are harmless, but the vast majority of people disagree. Is it what the majority of people think is harmless? Minority groups decry the &quot;tyranny of the majority&quot; so I doubt that this would be the accepted standard. 

I agree that justice requires acceptance, but only from the governmental standpoint. It does not mandate it upon a free people who would otherwise disagree. That&#039;s tyranny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Priya: &#8220;when you oppose those who harm no one hatred is the only possible reason why.&#8221; I hold a different opinion than you, and therefore oppose you. You have harmed no one with your opinions. Does that mean I hate you? Does that mean that you hate Neil and Bob? Of course not. Who are you to question someone&#8217;s motives? </p>
<p>Furthermore, who determines what is a harmless perversion worthy of mandatory acceptance? NAMBLA members think their actions are harmless, but the vast majority of people disagree. Is it what the majority of people think is harmless? Minority groups decry the &#8220;tyranny of the majority&#8221; so I doubt that this would be the accepted standard. </p>
<p>I agree that justice requires acceptance, but only from the governmental standpoint. It does not mandate it upon a free people who would otherwise disagree. That&#8217;s tyranny.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert (not Bob)</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805/comment-page-1#comment-70559</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert (not Bob)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805#comment-70559</guid>
		<description>I disagree that there was actionable discrimination. By that I mean that private companies (should) have the right to serve, and the right to refuse service. If that is because of your sexual orientation or because you don&#039;t support the local sports team, that is up to the company. If the policies are too crazy, that person is not going to be in business much longer. 

Consider the opposite: I don&#039;t want to photograph your commitment ceremony because you&#039;re a same sex couple (regardless of my religious views). The government says I have to work because my basis for my discrimination is not a valid reason. Thus the government would be forcing me to work in a situation that I don&#039;t want to. Isn&#039;t that a violation of the 13th amendment? Isn&#039;t that involuntary servitude?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree that there was actionable discrimination. By that I mean that private companies (should) have the right to serve, and the right to refuse service. If that is because of your sexual orientation or because you don&#8217;t support the local sports team, that is up to the company. If the policies are too crazy, that person is not going to be in business much longer. </p>
<p>Consider the opposite: I don&#8217;t want to photograph your commitment ceremony because you&#8217;re a same sex couple (regardless of my religious views). The government says I have to work because my basis for my discrimination is not a valid reason. Thus the government would be forcing me to work in a situation that I don&#8217;t want to. Isn&#8217;t that a violation of the 13th amendment? Isn&#8217;t that involuntary servitude?</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805/comment-page-1#comment-67111</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 21:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805#comment-67111</guid>
		<description>Neil/Bob, when you oppose those who harm no one hatred is the only possible reason why.  Justice demands that you accept every harmless &quot;perversion&quot; otherwise people can arbitrarily define your life as a perversion and deny you equal rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil/Bob, when you oppose those who harm no one hatred is the only possible reason why.  Justice demands that you accept every harmless &#8220;perversion&#8221; otherwise people can arbitrarily define your life as a perversion and deny you equal rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805/comment-page-1#comment-67105</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 19:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/04/14/1805#comment-67105</guid>
		<description>Neil/Bob,

The use of two different names in an effort to appear as though you are two persons with the same viewpoint does not lend credibility to your argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil/Bob,</p>
<p>The use of two different names in an effort to appear as though you are two persons with the same viewpoint does not lend credibility to your argument.</p>
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