I have to disagree with you though on some points. Im not involved in any ex-gay ministries but i find myself over all more happy than I have been in the past. I have realistic expectations and I’m ok with what the future holds. perhaps there is a problem when people come in thinking that they’re gonna be chasing skirt in a year or two. I wish it was that simple, but its not. I dont want to be a skirt chaser, but I think one day, I can be happily married with a woman. even now, I already experience attractions to women, though they arent the “rip their clothes off, sexually charged passion” of my other guy friends. but then again, I wouldnt want to be like that, just like I wouldnt want to chase guys like that.

much love, and luck in future endeavours. and I must appologize that you faced such rejection. I am so sorry.

Has Throckmorton now disowned Gutierrez?

What does that mean, if Throckmorton has disowned Gutierrez even as he continues to sell the “I Do Exist” video which not only distorted Gutierrez’s journey, but also promoted the work of an ex-gay demon-obsessed exorcist?

For the record I am a devout and very active Christian (from the Buddhist branch of the Christian faith) and very active member of the United Church of Christ. I have found exactly the peace and understanding in my faith, and in my relationship with Christ, that you speak so eloquently of. In my case, and I suspect in the case of many, if not most, GLBT people of faith, that relationship wasn’t possible until I came to a place in my life where I was able to have a loving and honest relationship with myself; my REAL self; my gay self.

Again, thanks for your kind and thoughtful contributions to this discussion.

I did not mean to infer that homosexuality is an alternative for straight people. Perhaps naively, my intention behind the word ‘alternative’ was to be more inclusive than just gay or straight – but to recognize the many diverse identities people are exploring or adopting for themselves (along the lines of the never ending acronym…).

I come from what would be considered a ’side b’ perspective … however, I have often said to the conservative Christian community (my regular ‘audience’), that I believe part of my ‘job’ is to normalize the experience of same-gender attraction. This experience is simply a reality for some people. It is not, in my understanding, something that MUST be eradicated in order to be accepted, loved or pleasing to God. Nor do I think anyone can in good conscience claim that they have the secret formula to influence (let alone completely change) anyone’s orientation. In my experience, however, there are some people of faith with whom I’ve engaged relationally who are genuinely unsure, confused, questioning what exactly their orientation is…. they may end up owning for themselves a gay identity, a bi-sexual identity, a straight identity …. but at that point in their life they really are uncertain. By talking about identities rather than orientation, I attempt to articulate a spaciousness needed for those folks to wrestle it out, journey for as long as they need, to own for themselves the identity that seems most consistent with their persistent experience.

My focus, as a follower of Jesus, is to encourage a person – gay, straight, bi, transgendered – or anything in between – to encounter and engage on a relational level with Christ. At the end of the day, I have zero control over what they do with that encouragement. And that is the way it should be. It isn’t within the realm of human capacity to change another’s heart …. that is between the individual and their Maker (if that is the belief system you hold).

What I rejoice about in Noe’s story is that he seems to have emerged from a striving, fear-based, shame-based focus on his sexual orientation to a freer relationship with Christ focused on who Christ is – not so much on who he is. My heart’s desire is that no one, regardless of orientation or experience of confusion about their sexuality, would feel stuck in a place of such fear, anxiety and oppression. That is not reflective, in my understanding, of the person or ministry of Jesus Christ. What I see in Christ is that perfect love casts out fear.

What an individual does about their sexual behaviour, in my understanding, needs to flow out of the freedom of experiencing the intimacy of that perfect love. Therefore, whether someone who has a homosexual orientation lands on a side a or a side b perspective (terms from bridges across and gcn) is secondary to me – what is primary is where they are at in their spiritual journey – and in my case, where they are at in relationship with Jesus Christ.

Anyway…. give a preacher an inch and they rattle on for a mile :)
I appreciate your insights Zeke – it will give me more to chew on and ponder. I would be the first to say, I have a lot to learn – and come from a whole different world than many of you – so I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and will take them into careful consideration as I continue to wrestle with the best use of language.

As if people who quit the gay subculture and the gay lifestyle don’t experience analogous treatment? Puh-leez….

Being a part of any community is fruitless – you’ll end up being somebody’s tool – without a clear, personal concept of right and wrong, clear understandings of one’s motivations and morals.

No matter how seemingly kind, loving and compassionate the salesperson may be, at the end of the day the product they’re peddling is still, ineffective at best and dangerous/deadly at worst, SNAKE OIL.

Those who sell it with a smile on their faces are able sell more of it and therefore they are more dangerous than those whose negative and angry demeanor make them less effective peddlers.

I would much rather deal with the Sally Kern that was secretly taped spewing hatred, anger and wildly over the top misinformation than the sweet, kind, compassionate, grandmother-like repackaged version of her that gave a news conference where she looked reasonable and harmless.

Wendy here seems like a genuinely kind person but frankly I fear her more than I do LaBarbara and some of the other vein popping homophobes. If her desire to let people be who they are without trying to change them or trying to create a world where they will be sure to be miserable is genuine then I say kudos to her, however her use of “alternative sexual identities” makes me very nervous. The buzz words are there. We all know them. We know who uses them and we know why.

Wendy, perhaps you are just not familiar with generally accepted terminology for GLBT people and GLBT orientation so I’ll give you a break. “Alternative” “lifestyle/sexual identity” etc. is inaccurate, outdated and generally considered an inappropriate way to refer to GLBT orientation/expression/identity since it is not an “alternative” to people who are GLBT. By using the word “alternative sexual identity” to refer to homosexuality you infer that homosexuality is an alternative for straight people. That, along with the avoidance of the term or the concept of “sexual orientation” falls right into the misinformation that anti-gay activists and the ex-gay industry peddles, that gay people are just straight people who are misbehaving and choosing an alternate sexual identity; a sexual identity that they can choose to turn their back on a RETURN to their natural heterosexuality. That is simply not the case and is why your use of the term makes me suspicious of where you’re coming from.

Forgive me if my suspicions are inaccurate but gay people tend to be very sensitive to these things and we tend to become suspicious when we hear certain buzz words; especially when they come from people in the faith community. I think there’s a very good reason for our sensitivity and suspicion however I am aware of the fact that we sometimes misdirect doubt and suspicion at people who are genuinely kind and supportive. I hope you are one of these people and that you’ll continue contributing to the conversations here. .

I celebrate the resiliancy of his faith and even more the faithfulness of Christ to reveal a deeper and more profound sense of grace to Noe.

I’m reading again Henri Nouwen’s book, “Lifesigns” in which he speaks of how profoundly people of faith can be driven by fear …. and the great necessity to move from the ‘house of fear’ to the ‘house of love’. Noe seems to have moved toward the ‘house of love’ and for this I rejoice.

In the freedom of love, we do not need to be threatened by the questioning of those with whom we have relationship. There can be room and spaciousness to generously and authentically explore questions of identity and faith – with our eyes fixed on Christ.

I pray that Noe’s words will “cut ex-gay ministry leaders to the quick” to work towards creating such spaciousness within Christian ministry for those questioning, struggling or embracing alternative sexual identities.

The ex-gays that complain about being villified are generally the ones who dirty their hands in politics.