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	<title>Comments on: More Anti-Semitism From &#8220;Pro-Family&#8221; Activists?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Jason D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063/comment-page-1#comment-11462</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 11:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063#comment-11462</guid>
		<description>&quot;They all think, as I do, that it makes no sense to extend rights to same-sex couples in conjugal relationships that the government denies to same-sex pairs in non-conjugal relationships.&quot;

That makes no sense.  The government doesn&#039;t check up on couples to see whether or not they are &quot;conjugal&quot; or not.  Any opposite sex couple can get married and never have conjugal relations.  An extension of rights to any couple, regardless of sex, wouldn&#039;t be predicated on who&#039;s having sex and who isn&#039;t.

I fail to see why same sex pairs in non-conjugal relationships (neighbors?  racquetball buddies?) would even be interested in having their partnership recognized...but regardless, there&#039;s nothing in anything that any gay rights group is working towards that mandates the relationship be conjugal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They all think, as I do, that it makes no sense to extend rights to same-sex couples in conjugal relationships that the government denies to same-sex pairs in non-conjugal relationships.&#8221;</p>
<p>That makes no sense.  The government doesn&#8217;t check up on couples to see whether or not they are &#8220;conjugal&#8221; or not.  Any opposite sex couple can get married and never have conjugal relations.  An extension of rights to any couple, regardless of sex, wouldn&#8217;t be predicated on who&#8217;s having sex and who isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I fail to see why same sex pairs in non-conjugal relationships (neighbors?  racquetball buddies?) would even be interested in having their partnership recognized&#8230;but regardless, there&#8217;s nothing in anything that any gay rights group is working towards that mandates the relationship be conjugal.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063/comment-page-1#comment-11449</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 02:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063#comment-11449</guid>
		<description>David,

Your site claims to be &quot;A website for LGBT folks who support marriage as the union of husband and wife—and getting the gay leadership to return to more pressing LGBT issues for our community.&quot;

While some individuals have questioned the priorities of our community and some have challenged the idea that marriage be the gold standard of relationships, I find it very unlikely that ANY of the well known persons whom you claim support your cause actually do &quot;support marriage as the union of husband and wife&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Your site claims to be &#8220;A website for LGBT folks who support marriage as the union of husband and wife—and getting the gay leadership to return to more pressing LGBT issues for our community.&#8221;</p>
<p>While some individuals have questioned the priorities of our community and some have challenged the idea that marriage be the gold standard of relationships, I find it very unlikely that ANY of the well known persons whom you claim support your cause actually do &#8220;support marriage as the union of husband and wife&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: David Benkof</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063/comment-page-1#comment-11444</link>
		<dc:creator>David Benkof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 00:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063#comment-11444</guid>
		<description>Emily-

They all oppose the same-sex marriage push by LGBT leaders. They all think, as I do, that it makes no sense to extend rights to same-sex couples in conjugal relationships that the government denies to same-sex pairs in non-conjugal relationships. They would like to see more laws, as would I, like the benefits law in Salt Lake City that allow people to designate any one person to get certain rights and benefits, whethery they&#039;re in an erotic relationship with that person or not. They think that privileging the marriage relationship over the many, many kinds of families present in the LGBT community and the wider society is wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily-</p>
<p>They all oppose the same-sex marriage push by LGBT leaders. They all think, as I do, that it makes no sense to extend rights to same-sex couples in conjugal relationships that the government denies to same-sex pairs in non-conjugal relationships. They would like to see more laws, as would I, like the benefits law in Salt Lake City that allow people to designate any one person to get certain rights and benefits, whethery they&#8217;re in an erotic relationship with that person or not. They think that privileging the marriage relationship over the many, many kinds of families present in the LGBT community and the wider society is wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063/comment-page-1#comment-11256</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 23:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063#comment-11256</guid>
		<description>They all oppose same sex marriage? Or they just want other things to come before it, but want same-sex marriage to eventually be legal? I want my benefits, as a gay person, to be equal. But at least I&#039;m not being forced to wear a black patch or being threatened with decapitation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They all oppose same sex marriage? Or they just want other things to come before it, but want same-sex marriage to eventually be legal? I want my benefits, as a gay person, to be equal. But at least I&#8217;m not being forced to wear a black patch or being threatened with decapitation.</p>
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		<title>By: David Benkof</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063/comment-page-1#comment-11238</link>
		<dc:creator>David Benkof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 08:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063#comment-11238</guid>
		<description>I fail to see any evidence that I am lying, for G-d or anyone else. I use both &quot;gay&quot; and &quot;bisexual&quot; as labels because I don&#039;t think either one is a perfect descriptor of my sexuality. I&#039;d use &quot;queer&quot; if I didn&#039;t know it would cause people who don&#039;t know me to think I was using an antigay epithet.

Emily K says I&#039;m the only gay on the site. Well, the site is less than a week old and so far there are two LGBT people defending marriage: me and &quot;Mark&quot; - a partnered gay Christian who opposes redefining marriage. Mark is actually considerably more conservative than I am. The &quot;other voices&quot; page lists dozens of LGBT people who oppose the prioritzation of same-sex marriage over other measures to help gays and lesbians. Among them are some very prominent LGBT names like Armistead Maupin, Chai Feldblum, Kerry Lobel, and Nadine Smith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fail to see any evidence that I am lying, for G-d or anyone else. I use both &#8220;gay&#8221; and &#8220;bisexual&#8221; as labels because I don&#8217;t think either one is a perfect descriptor of my sexuality. I&#8217;d use &#8220;queer&#8221; if I didn&#8217;t know it would cause people who don&#8217;t know me to think I was using an antigay epithet.</p>
<p>Emily K says I&#8217;m the only gay on the site. Well, the site is less than a week old and so far there are two LGBT people defending marriage: me and &#8220;Mark&#8221; &#8211; a partnered gay Christian who opposes redefining marriage. Mark is actually considerably more conservative than I am. The &#8220;other voices&#8221; page lists dozens of LGBT people who oppose the prioritzation of same-sex marriage over other measures to help gays and lesbians. Among them are some very prominent LGBT names like Armistead Maupin, Chai Feldblum, Kerry Lobel, and Nadine Smith.</p>
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		<title>By: Truthteller</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063/comment-page-1#comment-11224</link>
		<dc:creator>Truthteller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 02:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063#comment-11224</guid>
		<description>Bruce, given that you&#039;re a mind reader, explain exactly how you know Glenn was referring to Benkof&#039;s &quot;ethnicity&quot; and not his religion when he described him as &quot;Jewish.&quot;

Further, it appears the thing on LaBarbera&#039;s website was lifted from a news release, in which -- whoever wrote in Glenn&#039;s shop wrote it -- you write &#039;em in third person, even if you&#039;re quoting yourself.

Here&#039;s a link to the original, and yes, when I post a link, I actually intend for you and anybody else who&#039;s interested to click it:

http://www.afamichigan.org/2008/05/21/news-triangle-foundation-newspapers-should-get-sued-and-slapped-business-owners-go-to-jail/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bruce, given that you&#8217;re a mind reader, explain exactly how you know Glenn was referring to Benkof&#8217;s &#8220;ethnicity&#8221; and not his religion when he described him as &#8220;Jewish.&#8221;</p>
<p>Further, it appears the thing on LaBarbera&#8217;s website was lifted from a news release, in which &#8212; whoever wrote in Glenn&#8217;s shop wrote it &#8212; you write &#8216;em in third person, even if you&#8217;re quoting yourself.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a link to the original, and yes, when I post a link, I actually intend for you and anybody else who&#8217;s interested to click it:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.afamichigan.org/2008/05/21/news-triangle-foundation-newspapers-should-get-sued-and-slapped-business-owners-go-to-jail/" rel="nofollow">http://www.afamichigan.org/2008/05/21/news-triangle-foundation-newspapers-should-get-sued-and-slapped-business-owners-go-to-jail/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Garrett</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063/comment-page-1#comment-11216</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Garrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 23:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063#comment-11216</guid>
		<description>Right...sorry...Truthteller actually did say that &quot;Gay Jewish writer gives up sex with men&quot; headline was a Southern Voice headline not a Good As You One.  So I&#039;m not paying attention either I reckon.  But  given that he&#039;s quoting that passage about Benkof being &quot;a conservative gay (and Orthodox Jew) who truly feels that marriage should remain one man, one woman&quot;, why not also include the sub headline in the SOVO article too, since it&#039;s saying basically the same thing and makes the relevance plain?

And...actually I&#039;m smacking Glenn for something he did And didn&#039;t say.  He said Benkof is Jewish.  He didn&#039;t say why that mattered.  I think it&#039;s telling.  Well...maybe not as telling as his rant about how gay activists want to  &quot;...impose their radical social agenda on America by brute force, trampling cherished American values such as religious freedom, freedom of speech, academic freedom, and even freedom of the press if it stands in their way.&quot;  But as I averred, it&#039;s those little off the cuff things that say the most about people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right&#8230;sorry&#8230;Truthteller actually did say that &#8220;Gay Jewish writer gives up sex with men&#8221; headline was a Southern Voice headline not a Good As You One.  So I&#8217;m not paying attention either I reckon.  But  given that he&#8217;s quoting that passage about Benkof being &#8220;a conservative gay (and Orthodox Jew) who truly feels that marriage should remain one man, one woman&#8221;, why not also include the sub headline in the SOVO article too, since it&#8217;s saying basically the same thing and makes the relevance plain?</p>
<p>And&#8230;actually I&#8217;m smacking Glenn for something he did And didn&#8217;t say.  He said Benkof is Jewish.  He didn&#8217;t say why that mattered.  I think it&#8217;s telling.  Well&#8230;maybe not as telling as his rant about how gay activists want to  &#8220;&#8230;impose their radical social agenda on America by brute force, trampling cherished American values such as religious freedom, freedom of speech, academic freedom, and even freedom of the press if it stands in their way.&#8221;  But as I averred, it&#8217;s those little off the cuff things that say the most about people.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Garrett</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063/comment-page-1#comment-11215</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Garrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 23:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063#comment-11215</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Then maybe the folks at Good-As-You and SO VO are anti-Semitic too, ya think, Bruce?&lt;/i&gt;

Ya know...the problem with including links in an accusation is that people might actually click on them.  The post at Good As You brings up Benkof&#039;s religion in the context of his being an orthodox Jew, which, I dunno, might somehow have some &lt;i&gt;Bearing&lt;/i&gt; on his belief in marriage being restricted to opposite sex couples.  Here&#039;s how Good As You Put It:

&lt;blockquote&gt;he&#039;s a conservative gay (and Orthodox Jew) who truly feels that marriage should remain one man, one woman. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

But the fun part was the headline you cited was actually a link to a Southern Voice article, not something any of the folks at Good As You wrote.  Pay attention much?  I clicked on that link and...low and behold...the sub headline under the &quot;Gay Jewish writer gives up sex with men&quot; heading reads...

&lt;blockquote&gt;Benkof claims faith won&#039;t allow same-sex relationships&lt;/blockquote&gt;

...which, hey, call me an anti-semitic apologist but it Sure &lt;i&gt;Looks To Me&lt;/i&gt; like the guy&#039;s religion was relevant to the article in question.  Maybe I&#039;m missing some hidden meanings here.  Maybe I wasn&#039;t actually supposed to look at that link and see if you were right that someone was waving Benkof&#039;s ethnicity around the way Glenn was waving it around.  I&#039;ve read Glenn&#039;s article and I still don&#039;t see the point in noting Benkof&#039;s ethnicity, other then that&#039;s just how Glenn&#039;s kind naturally relate to people: by their labels.  As opposed to...you know...the content of their character.  He was using Benkof as a spring board to attack Sean Kosofsky and Michigan’s Triangle Foundation, not open up a discussion about how someone of an orthodox Jewish faith understands marriage.  

And...in third person.  It is very...weird...reading someone quoting themselves as though they&#039;d interviewed themselves.  But I suppose babbling fringe hatemongers don&#039;t get interviewed all that much by anyone other then...well...other babbling fringe hatemongers, so you have make do with what you have.

&lt;blockquote&gt;“The Triangle Foundation openly admits homosexual activists’ intentions, once they gain sufficient political power, to impose their radical social agenda on America by brute force, trampling cherished American values such as religious freedom, freedom of speech, academic freedom, and even freedom of the press if it stands in their way,” Glenn said.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well I reckon he got the quote right...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Then maybe the folks at Good-As-You and SO VO are anti-Semitic too, ya think, Bruce?</i></p>
<p>Ya know&#8230;the problem with including links in an accusation is that people might actually click on them.  The post at Good As You brings up Benkof&#8217;s religion in the context of his being an orthodox Jew, which, I dunno, might somehow have some <i>Bearing</i> on his belief in marriage being restricted to opposite sex couples.  Here&#8217;s how Good As You Put It:</p>
<blockquote><p>he&#8217;s a conservative gay (and Orthodox Jew) who truly feels that marriage should remain one man, one woman. </p></blockquote>
<p>But the fun part was the headline you cited was actually a link to a Southern Voice article, not something any of the folks at Good As You wrote.  Pay attention much?  I clicked on that link and&#8230;low and behold&#8230;the sub headline under the &#8220;Gay Jewish writer gives up sex with men&#8221; heading reads&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>Benkof claims faith won&#8217;t allow same-sex relationships</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230;which, hey, call me an anti-semitic apologist but it Sure <i>Looks To Me</i> like the guy&#8217;s religion was relevant to the article in question.  Maybe I&#8217;m missing some hidden meanings here.  Maybe I wasn&#8217;t actually supposed to look at that link and see if you were right that someone was waving Benkof&#8217;s ethnicity around the way Glenn was waving it around.  I&#8217;ve read Glenn&#8217;s article and I still don&#8217;t see the point in noting Benkof&#8217;s ethnicity, other then that&#8217;s just how Glenn&#8217;s kind naturally relate to people: by their labels.  As opposed to&#8230;you know&#8230;the content of their character.  He was using Benkof as a spring board to attack Sean Kosofsky and Michigan’s Triangle Foundation, not open up a discussion about how someone of an orthodox Jewish faith understands marriage.  </p>
<p>And&#8230;in third person.  It is very&#8230;weird&#8230;reading someone quoting themselves as though they&#8217;d interviewed themselves.  But I suppose babbling fringe hatemongers don&#8217;t get interviewed all that much by anyone other then&#8230;well&#8230;other babbling fringe hatemongers, so you have make do with what you have.</p>
<blockquote><p>“The Triangle Foundation openly admits homosexual activists’ intentions, once they gain sufficient political power, to impose their radical social agenda on America by brute force, trampling cherished American values such as religious freedom, freedom of speech, academic freedom, and even freedom of the press if it stands in their way,” Glenn said.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well I reckon he got the quote right&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Truthteller</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063/comment-page-1#comment-11209</link>
		<dc:creator>Truthteller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 22:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063#comment-11209</guid>
		<description>And at the end of Jeremy&#039;s post over at Good-As-You:

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2008/05/some-gays-are-d.html

Jeremy provides a link to a story about Benkof published by the LGBT newspaper Southern Voice in Atlanta, titled:

&quot;Gay Jewish writer gives up sex with men&quot;

Hmmm...you know how all those southerners are.  If just mentioning that Benkof is Jewish is &quot;telling&quot; or &quot;peculiar&quot; or &quot;says it all&quot;... 

Then maybe the folks at Good-As-You and SO VO are anti-Semitic too, ya think, Bruce?

Maybe you&#039;d be more effective at smacking Glenn for what he did say if you weren&#039;t distracted by being so anxious to smack him for something he didn&#039;t say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And at the end of Jeremy&#8217;s post over at Good-As-You:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2008/05/some-gays-are-d.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2008/05/some-gays-are-d.html</a></p>
<p>Jeremy provides a link to a story about Benkof published by the LGBT newspaper Southern Voice in Atlanta, titled:</p>
<p>&#8220;Gay Jewish writer gives up sex with men&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmmm&#8230;you know how all those southerners are.  If just mentioning that Benkof is Jewish is &#8220;telling&#8221; or &#8220;peculiar&#8221; or &#8220;says it all&#8221;&#8230; </p>
<p>Then maybe the folks at Good-As-You and SO VO are anti-Semitic too, ya think, Bruce?</p>
<p>Maybe you&#8217;d be more effective at smacking Glenn for what he did say if you weren&#8217;t distracted by being so anxious to smack him for something he didn&#8217;t say.</p>
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		<title>By: Truthteller</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063/comment-page-1#comment-11208</link>
		<dc:creator>Truthteller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 22:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/21/2063#comment-11208</guid>
		<description>In his original post, Timothy provides a link to Jeremy at Good-As-You.com, where Jeremy thought it relevant, Bruce, to describe Benkof as follows:

&quot;He&#039;s not a clever satirist; he&#039;s a conservative gay and Orthodox Jew who truly feels that marriage should remain one man, one woman.&quot;

Obviously, it was important to Jeremy to mention that Benkof&#039;s Jewish.

And important in that &quot;telling&quot; and offhanded kind of way that just says it all, right, Bruce?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In his original post, Timothy provides a link to Jeremy at Good-As-You.com, where Jeremy thought it relevant, Bruce, to describe Benkof as follows:</p>
<p>&#8220;He&#8217;s not a clever satirist; he&#8217;s a conservative gay and Orthodox Jew who truly feels that marriage should remain one man, one woman.&#8221;</p>
<p>Obviously, it was important to Jeremy to mention that Benkof&#8217;s Jewish.</p>
<p>And important in that &#8220;telling&#8221; and offhanded kind of way that just says it all, right, Bruce?</p>
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