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	<title>Comments on: David Benkof&#8217;s One Man Anti-Gay Campaign of Lies and Deception</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Protect Marriage Equality &#187; SF Chronicle Runs Op-Ed By Author Accused of Being Antigay Activist in Disguise</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197/comment-page-3#comment-12717</link>
		<dc:creator>Protect Marriage Equality &#187; SF Chronicle Runs Op-Ed By Author Accused of Being Antigay Activist in Disguise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197#comment-12717</guid>
		<description>[...] to Timothy Kincaid at Box Turtle Bulletin, &#8230;[A]t first glace David appears to be a young gay man who believes that there are better [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to Timothy Kincaid at Box Turtle Bulletin, &#8230;[A]t first glace David appears to be a young gay man who believes that there are better [...]</p>
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		<title>By: cowboy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197/comment-page-3#comment-12314</link>
		<dc:creator>cowboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197#comment-12314</guid>
		<description>There is more than the “not-marriage-but-equal” issue here too.   I call it:  BITE_ME  (&lt;b&gt;B&lt;/b&gt;ut  &lt;b&gt;I&lt;/b&gt;t’s &lt;b&gt;E&lt;/b&gt;ssentially &lt;b&gt;M&lt;/b&gt;arriage &lt;b&gt;E&lt;/b&gt;quality).

I’ll never have the opportunity to be sealed (married) in one of those ornate rooms in the Mormon Temple.   Nor will I ever have the opportunity to walk down the aisle in a grand Cathedral like in Maria did in The Sound of Music.   

But whatever you call it…BITE_ME when it comes to taxes and perks that comes from being married in every legal sense.   

And no funny looks when my life-partner and I book a honeymoon suite at one of those Sandals Resorts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is more than the “not-marriage-but-equal” issue here too.   I call it:  BITE_ME  (<b>B</b>ut  <b>I</b>t’s <b>E</b>ssentially <b>M</b>arriage <b>E</b>quality).</p>
<p>I’ll never have the opportunity to be sealed (married) in one of those ornate rooms in the Mormon Temple.   Nor will I ever have the opportunity to walk down the aisle in a grand Cathedral like in Maria did in The Sound of Music.   </p>
<p>But whatever you call it…BITE_ME when it comes to taxes and perks that comes from being married in every legal sense.   </p>
<p>And no funny looks when my life-partner and I book a honeymoon suite at one of those Sandals Resorts.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197/comment-page-3#comment-12313</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197#comment-12313</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I’ll stop by as many times as it takes for people to realize that this is the wrong place to come if they want to talk to me.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Remind me.  What&#039;s the point in talking to  Benkof?  Oh yeah.  A trial of patience for us as he dodges questions, warps reality, misrepresents others and shills for the anti-gay right.  I guess it also facilitates exposing him for the self-aggrandizing liar that he is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I’ll stop by as many times as it takes for people to realize that this is the wrong place to come if they want to talk to me.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Remind me.  What&#8217;s the point in talking to  Benkof?  Oh yeah.  A trial of patience for us as he dodges questions, warps reality, misrepresents others and shills for the anti-gay right.  I guess it also facilitates exposing him for the self-aggrandizing liar that he is.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Burroway</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197/comment-page-3#comment-12312</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Burroway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197#comment-12312</guid>
		<description>Okay now everyone, let&#039;s keep the ad hominen attacks out of it. There&#039;s plenty to comment on. No need to get personal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay now everyone, let&#8217;s keep the ad hominen attacks out of it. There&#8217;s plenty to comment on. No need to get personal.</p>
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		<title>By: PiaSharn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197/comment-page-3#comment-12311</link>
		<dc:creator>PiaSharn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197#comment-12311</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a bit late (sorry, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dickblick.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dick Blick&lt;/a&gt; is having a sale, and I got distracted by art supplies) but I just wanted to clarify something I wrote earlier about civil unions vs. marriages.

I am aware that civil unions vary from place to place, and that most of them do not offer the full benefits of a legal marriage. I am also aware that even if one has all the benefits on the state level, one is still excluded from the federal benefits.

I used the phrase &quot;as long as we get the same legal rights and protections&quot; on purpose. I am not satisfied with civil unions that do not offer less protection. And I certainly want same-sex couples to have the rights of marriage on both the state level and on the federal level.

Mr. Beckof was (as he usually does) writing a bunch of lies about what I believe. He had said, &quot;You’re just upset because it hurts your feelings to have to have a different word, it makes you feel less equal. Poor baby.&quot;

This, like much of what he writes, is a load of BS.

When I was still living in MI, I noticed a trend in a lot of the conservative Christians who lived there. Many of them had little to no problem with same-sex couples having the same legal protections, what bothered them was having it called &quot;marriage&quot;. I think it&#039;s because they have a hard time not seeing the word in a religious context. 

One suggestion I remember hearing was that the word &quot;marriage&quot; be used for the religious ceremony, while the term &quot;civil union&quot; be used by the government for the legal aspect. (This would apply for both same-sex couples and opposite-sex couples.) And I&#039;m fine with this; I don&#039;t care what term is on the paperwork as long as I am treated equally by the law.

Do civil unions as they currently exist offer equal protection? No, and I want that to change. 

Mr. Beckof seems to think that the only thing I care about is the word, which is very untrue. I care about the rights, priviledges, and protections. Like the Bard, I simply happen to believe that a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a bit late (sorry, <a href="http://www.dickblick.com" rel="nofollow">Dick Blick</a> is having a sale, and I got distracted by art supplies) but I just wanted to clarify something I wrote earlier about civil unions vs. marriages.</p>
<p>I am aware that civil unions vary from place to place, and that most of them do not offer the full benefits of a legal marriage. I am also aware that even if one has all the benefits on the state level, one is still excluded from the federal benefits.</p>
<p>I used the phrase &#8220;as long as we get the same legal rights and protections&#8221; on purpose. I am not satisfied with civil unions that do not offer less protection. And I certainly want same-sex couples to have the rights of marriage on both the state level and on the federal level.</p>
<p>Mr. Beckof was (as he usually does) writing a bunch of lies about what I believe. He had said, &#8220;You’re just upset because it hurts your feelings to have to have a different word, it makes you feel less equal. Poor baby.&#8221;</p>
<p>This, like much of what he writes, is a load of BS.</p>
<p>When I was still living in MI, I noticed a trend in a lot of the conservative Christians who lived there. Many of them had little to no problem with same-sex couples having the same legal protections, what bothered them was having it called &#8220;marriage&#8221;. I think it&#8217;s because they have a hard time not seeing the word in a religious context. </p>
<p>One suggestion I remember hearing was that the word &#8220;marriage&#8221; be used for the religious ceremony, while the term &#8220;civil union&#8221; be used by the government for the legal aspect. (This would apply for both same-sex couples and opposite-sex couples.) And I&#8217;m fine with this; I don&#8217;t care what term is on the paperwork as long as I am treated equally by the law.</p>
<p>Do civil unions as they currently exist offer equal protection? No, and I want that to change. </p>
<p>Mr. Beckof seems to think that the only thing I care about is the word, which is very untrue. I care about the rights, priviledges, and protections. Like the Bard, I simply happen to believe that a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197/comment-page-3#comment-12309</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197#comment-12309</guid>
		<description>This is so funny...

He runs away to his pink website where people don&#039;t call him on his constant lies, and then he comes back.  

Runs away to pink website where people don&#039;t call him on his constant lies, and then he comes back.

Runs away to his pink website where his multiple personalities (Note:  those are the &quot;gays defending marriage&quot;) are free to argue with each other with a pink background, and then he comes back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is so funny&#8230;</p>
<p>He runs away to his pink website where people don&#8217;t call him on his constant lies, and then he comes back.  </p>
<p>Runs away to pink website where people don&#8217;t call him on his constant lies, and then he comes back.</p>
<p>Runs away to his pink website where his multiple personalities (Note:  those are the &#8220;gays defending marriage&#8221;) are free to argue with each other with a pink background, and then he comes back.</p>
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		<title>By: MirrorMan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197/comment-page-3#comment-12307</link>
		<dc:creator>MirrorMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197#comment-12307</guid>
		<description>Well, I checked out Davey&#039;s bit of drivel, and it is really no different that anything he has said before: &#039;Show me your data&#039;, which, roughly translated, says &#039;Do my research for me so I don&#039;t have to&#039;. Also unchanged is his view that &#039;It was that way a while ago, so it hasn&#039;t changed&#039; mentality. To wit: &#039;HRC claims to work on all kinds of issues relating to LGBT people. When I worked at HRC as a legislative intern in 1992, HIV was a much bigger priority than it is now. What changed other than the color of skin and the size of the wallets of the gay and bisexual men dying of AIDS? I&#039;d really like to know.&#039; 
Yeah, nothing has changed in 16 years, except protease inhibitors, prevention campaigns, condom distribution, ad nauseum. 

I love that he wants people to come to his mountain to talk to them, because then he can block you, bury with false statistics, and call out his hounds instead of defending his ridiculous comments. You really should read the article, though, because Fannie is just one more person taking Davey apart, and he really can&#039;t stand it when you don&#039;t agree with him.

How sad.

(And please note, I am not responding to him here. I have better ways to waste my time.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I checked out Davey&#8217;s bit of drivel, and it is really no different that anything he has said before: &#8216;Show me your data&#8217;, which, roughly translated, says &#8216;Do my research for me so I don&#8217;t have to&#8217;. Also unchanged is his view that &#8216;It was that way a while ago, so it hasn&#8217;t changed&#8217; mentality. To wit: &#8216;HRC claims to work on all kinds of issues relating to LGBT people. When I worked at HRC as a legislative intern in 1992, HIV was a much bigger priority than it is now. What changed other than the color of skin and the size of the wallets of the gay and bisexual men dying of AIDS? I&#8217;d really like to know.&#8217;<br />
Yeah, nothing has changed in 16 years, except protease inhibitors, prevention campaigns, condom distribution, ad nauseum. </p>
<p>I love that he wants people to come to his mountain to talk to them, because then he can block you, bury with false statistics, and call out his hounds instead of defending his ridiculous comments. You really should read the article, though, because Fannie is just one more person taking Davey apart, and he really can&#8217;t stand it when you don&#8217;t agree with him.</p>
<p>How sad.</p>
<p>(And please note, I am not responding to him here. I have better ways to waste my time.)</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197/comment-page-3#comment-12305</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197#comment-12305</guid>
		<description>No. My comments were strictly rhetorical. Really just to get it off my chest. I don&#039;t expect an answer because 1) you have provided precious few of them, and b) when you talk to anti-gay people who are driven by antio-gay ideology, one really can&#039;t expect anything out of their mouths that doesn&#039;t serve that ideology. 

For some reason, the more anti-gay claptrap i hear, the more pissed I get. Especially when it is inconsistent, hypocritical, highly selective, highly self-serving ideology masquerading as religion or intelligent discourse.

Since I can&#039;t bitch-slap you, Daddy dobson, Randy Thomasson, alan chambers or any of the other people that gain their power, money, sense of superiority, sense of self-righeousness, or self validation through their bigotry, I have to vent somewhere.

So i do it here. Now that i have said what i wanted to say, i can do something else.

Like destroy marriage.

(that&#039;s called irony).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. My comments were strictly rhetorical. Really just to get it off my chest. I don&#8217;t expect an answer because 1) you have provided precious few of them, and b) when you talk to anti-gay people who are driven by antio-gay ideology, one really can&#8217;t expect anything out of their mouths that doesn&#8217;t serve that ideology. </p>
<p>For some reason, the more anti-gay claptrap i hear, the more pissed I get. Especially when it is inconsistent, hypocritical, highly selective, highly self-serving ideology masquerading as religion or intelligent discourse.</p>
<p>Since I can&#8217;t bitch-slap you, Daddy dobson, Randy Thomasson, alan chambers or any of the other people that gain their power, money, sense of superiority, sense of self-righeousness, or self validation through their bigotry, I have to vent somewhere.</p>
<p>So i do it here. Now that i have said what i wanted to say, i can do something else.</p>
<p>Like destroy marriage.</p>
<p>(that&#8217;s called irony).</p>
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		<title>By: TJ McFisty</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197/comment-page-3#comment-12302</link>
		<dc:creator>TJ McFisty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197#comment-12302</guid>
		<description>Just when I thought his Google Alert bot broke.

&lt;i&gt;It’s clear that he’s playing “gotcha” and this is much more about making me look bad rather than helping me more accurately represent the truth.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, you put it out there, and he critiqued it. That&#039;s what happens when you write things for public consumption. In your case, your own words make you look bad. It happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just when I thought his Google Alert bot broke.</p>
<p><i>It’s clear that he’s playing “gotcha” and this is much more about making me look bad rather than helping me more accurately represent the truth.</i></p>
<p>Well, you put it out there, and he critiqued it. That&#8217;s what happens when you write things for public consumption. In your case, your own words make you look bad. It happens.</p>
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		<title>By: David Benkof</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197/comment-page-3#comment-12301</link>
		<dc:creator>David Benkof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/16/2197#comment-12301</guid>
		<description>werdna-

I&#039;ll stop by as many times as it takes for people to realize that this is the wrong place to come if they want to talk to me. Although I&#039;m pretty confused about why Ben in Oakland would suggest that I shouldn&#039;t be turning up here when less than an hour earlier he made several comments clearly directed at me including direct questions. If all your questions were rhetorical, Ben, OK, but it didn&#039;t appear so. If you actually want answers, you&#039;ll have to ask me somewhere else.

I love how Mr. Kincaid has now twice cited things I wrote before Monday (in this case a week ago today) and used it as evidence that I wasn&#039;t being true to my word - the word I gave on Monday. It&#039;s clear that he&#039;s playing &quot;gotcha&quot; and this is much more about making me look bad rather than helping me more accurately represent the truth. Since I never saw anything wrong about the old way of writing, I&#039;m not going to change what I&#039;m doing to accommodate the demands of people who won&#039;t be satisfied anyway. Sorry.

Finally, I agree with Mr. Kincaid that people should check out Fannie&#039;s Room. It is thoughtful, incisive, respectful, honest, fair, and reasonable. I have left a detailed reply at her Web site. A lot of you, perhaps especially Mr. Kincaid, could learn much from the way that woman blogs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>werdna-</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll stop by as many times as it takes for people to realize that this is the wrong place to come if they want to talk to me. Although I&#8217;m pretty confused about why Ben in Oakland would suggest that I shouldn&#8217;t be turning up here when less than an hour earlier he made several comments clearly directed at me including direct questions. If all your questions were rhetorical, Ben, OK, but it didn&#8217;t appear so. If you actually want answers, you&#8217;ll have to ask me somewhere else.</p>
<p>I love how Mr. Kincaid has now twice cited things I wrote before Monday (in this case a week ago today) and used it as evidence that I wasn&#8217;t being true to my word &#8211; the word I gave on Monday. It&#8217;s clear that he&#8217;s playing &#8220;gotcha&#8221; and this is much more about making me look bad rather than helping me more accurately represent the truth. Since I never saw anything wrong about the old way of writing, I&#8217;m not going to change what I&#8217;m doing to accommodate the demands of people who won&#8217;t be satisfied anyway. Sorry.</p>
<p>Finally, I agree with Mr. Kincaid that people should check out Fannie&#8217;s Room. It is thoughtful, incisive, respectful, honest, fair, and reasonable. I have left a detailed reply at her Web site. A lot of you, perhaps especially Mr. Kincaid, could learn much from the way that woman blogs.</p>
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