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	<title>Comments on: Benkof Loses Last Gay Newspaper</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Noli Irritare Leones &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Blogwatch</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271/comment-page-2#comment-13123</link>
		<dc:creator>Noli Irritare Leones &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Blogwatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271#comment-13123</guid>
		<description>[...] Box Turtle Bulletin, Timothy Kincaid takes issue with David Benkof&#8217;s representation of the rate of monogamy in the gay community.  And the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Box Turtle Bulletin, Timothy Kincaid takes issue with David Benkof&#8217;s representation of the rate of monogamy in the gay community.  And the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271/comment-page-2#comment-13000</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 03:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271#comment-13000</guid>
		<description>you&#039;re welcome, and thanks again for the forum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#8217;re welcome, and thanks again for the forum.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271/comment-page-2#comment-12998</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 01:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271#comment-12998</guid>
		<description>Gary,

We agree entirely.  And that is what we try to do here at BTB.  Thanks for being a part of that effort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary,</p>
<p>We agree entirely.  And that is what we try to do here at BTB.  Thanks for being a part of that effort.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271/comment-page-2#comment-12996</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 01:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271#comment-12996</guid>
		<description>Timothy, 

I agree, and I have my own voice. . .I certainly don&#039;t want it to be misinterpreted. At the same time, I feel it&#039;s important to let others know when their words are being corrupted.

This is why I brought the question &quot;Did you really say this, or is it out of context  . . .&quot; to the source. Not only because I suspected foul editing, but a sincere concern about comments from a leader of marriage equality in my home state.

My voice is small.

I know better than to engage conversation on his website, but many don&#039;t. . .and fall into the trap.

MirrorMan said, &quot;The fact that he never posted my comment speaks volumes . . .&quot;. Similar to any AFA or FOF site. . . typical. However, what we can do is call them on the carpet for their lies and misrepesentations when we see them, and do our best to expose lies for what they are. . .Perhaps that&#039;s a blog, a phone call or an email to the party being quoted asking for clarification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy, </p>
<p>I agree, and I have my own voice. . .I certainly don&#8217;t want it to be misinterpreted. At the same time, I feel it&#8217;s important to let others know when their words are being corrupted.</p>
<p>This is why I brought the question &#8220;Did you really say this, or is it out of context  . . .&#8221; to the source. Not only because I suspected foul editing, but a sincere concern about comments from a leader of marriage equality in my home state.</p>
<p>My voice is small.</p>
<p>I know better than to engage conversation on his website, but many don&#8217;t. . .and fall into the trap.</p>
<p>MirrorMan said, &#8220;The fact that he never posted my comment speaks volumes . . .&#8221;. Similar to any AFA or FOF site. . . typical. However, what we can do is call them on the carpet for their lies and misrepesentations when we see them, and do our best to expose lies for what they are. . .Perhaps that&#8217;s a blog, a phone call or an email to the party being quoted asking for clarification.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271/comment-page-2#comment-12995</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 00:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271#comment-12995</guid>
		<description>he has had one column appear in the Philly Inquirer (my hometown rag.) But seriously, the Inkie is like one step above USA Today, America&#039;s McPaper. 

Still, considering people like Leonard Pitts, Jr. and Dan Savage have the prestige of syndication, yes Mr. Benkof&#039;s resume seems a bit sparse to be able to say he has a &quot;good track record.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>he has had one column appear in the Philly Inquirer (my hometown rag.) But seriously, the Inkie is like one step above USA Today, America&#8217;s McPaper. </p>
<p>Still, considering people like Leonard Pitts, Jr. and Dan Savage have the prestige of syndication, yes Mr. Benkof&#8217;s resume seems a bit sparse to be able to say he has a &#8220;good track record.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: MirrorMan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271/comment-page-2#comment-12994</link>
		<dc:creator>MirrorMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 23:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271#comment-12994</guid>
		<description>On a similar point, I do not advise taking Benkof up on his invitation to discuss things by either email or on his website. I posted a contradiction to his comment: &quot;In case you haven’t noticed, I have a pretty good track record of placing opinion pieces in major mainstream publications - the Los Angeles Times, the New York Post, the San Francisco Chronicle, the Philadelphia Inquirer, and so on.&quot;
Well, the facts are again being played with fast and loose. He has been printed once in the LA Times, on June 5th, 2008, once in the New York post, on Jun. 9, 2008, and twice in the Chronicle, once in 2004 and again in 2008. I can&#039;t get access to the Philadelphia Inquirer without paying a fee, and I am sure not going to waste money on him. My point being, 2 appearances in The Chronicle, spaced four years apart, is not what anyone could conceivably call a &quot;good track record&quot;. The fact that he never posted my comment speaks volumes about his regard for the truth. Since he can&#039;t win an argument in a fair and open discussion, he takes it into an area where he can stack the deck. So much for a fair and level playing field.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a similar point, I do not advise taking Benkof up on his invitation to discuss things by either email or on his website. I posted a contradiction to his comment: &#8220;In case you haven’t noticed, I have a pretty good track record of placing opinion pieces in major mainstream publications &#8211; the Los Angeles Times, the New York Post, the San Francisco Chronicle, the Philadelphia Inquirer, and so on.&#8221;<br />
Well, the facts are again being played with fast and loose. He has been printed once in the LA Times, on June 5th, 2008, once in the New York post, on Jun. 9, 2008, and twice in the Chronicle, once in 2004 and again in 2008. I can&#8217;t get access to the Philadelphia Inquirer without paying a fee, and I am sure not going to waste money on him. My point being, 2 appearances in The Chronicle, spaced four years apart, is not what anyone could conceivably call a &#8220;good track record&#8221;. The fact that he never posted my comment speaks volumes about his regard for the truth. Since he can&#8217;t win an argument in a fair and open discussion, he takes it into an area where he can stack the deck. So much for a fair and level playing field.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271/comment-page-2#comment-12992</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271#comment-12992</guid>
		<description>Gary,

At this point I think it is clear that if anyone wishes to have any measure of control over their own voice, it is in their best interest to only communicate with Benkof in a public forum where the context and content can be verified.

In addition to the many members of the community that have stated publicly that David Benkof has not accurately characterized their position or their conversation, I have received a number of communications from individuals who have expressed that Benkof has either misstated their views or has berated them when they did not answer his inquiries the way he wished.  This has not been restricted to gay people, by the way.

Because they&#039;ve requested that I not publish their statements, I&#039;ll not name them. Y&#039;all just have to decide whether or not to believe me.

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary,</p>
<p>At this point I think it is clear that if anyone wishes to have any measure of control over their own voice, it is in their best interest to only communicate with Benkof in a public forum where the context and content can be verified.</p>
<p>In addition to the many members of the community that have stated publicly that David Benkof has not accurately characterized their position or their conversation, I have received a number of communications from individuals who have expressed that Benkof has either misstated their views or has berated them when they did not answer his inquiries the way he wished.  This has not been restricted to gay people, by the way.</p>
<p>Because they&#8217;ve requested that I not publish their statements, I&#8217;ll not name them. Y&#8217;all just have to decide whether or not to believe me.</p>
<p>:)</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271/comment-page-2#comment-12991</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271#comment-12991</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m very pleased to see that Benks has removed his &quot;bio&quot;.

Only to get angered again with his out of context quote of Legal Marriage Alliance of Washington/Michael Taylor-Judd.

The &quot;I must have deleted that email&quot; or &quot;It may have gone in the spam filter&quot; excuse has gotten pretty lame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m very pleased to see that Benks has removed his &#8220;bio&#8221;.</p>
<p>Only to get angered again with his out of context quote of Legal Marriage Alliance of Washington/Michael Taylor-Judd.</p>
<p>The &#8220;I must have deleted that email&#8221; or &#8220;It may have gone in the spam filter&#8221; excuse has gotten pretty lame.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271/comment-page-2#comment-12977</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 04:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271#comment-12977</guid>
		<description>I am Catholic.  I believe that the Catholic Church is still the single largest Christian denomination in the country.  However, the Catholic Church is still outnumbered by Protestants and Evangelicals.  I would wager that most American Catholics are well aware of these basic religious demographics in this country.  

Jews represent a much smaller religious group, which becomes even more tiny when you restrict yourself to the Orthodox.  I can&#039;t imagine anything more self defeating than for Benkof, a member of a minority religious group, to go around advocating the imposition of religious law on those who don&#039;t share it.  The more logical path towards self-preservation is to advocate for freedom of (and from) religious tyranny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am Catholic.  I believe that the Catholic Church is still the single largest Christian denomination in the country.  However, the Catholic Church is still outnumbered by Protestants and Evangelicals.  I would wager that most American Catholics are well aware of these basic religious demographics in this country.  </p>
<p>Jews represent a much smaller religious group, which becomes even more tiny when you restrict yourself to the Orthodox.  I can&#8217;t imagine anything more self defeating than for Benkof, a member of a minority religious group, to go around advocating the imposition of religious law on those who don&#8217;t share it.  The more logical path towards self-preservation is to advocate for freedom of (and from) religious tyranny.</p>
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		<title>By: MirrorMan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271/comment-page-2#comment-12968</link>
		<dc:creator>MirrorMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/06/26/2271#comment-12968</guid>
		<description>werdna, you wrote: &quot;Gay marriage falls under the Noahide law which prohibits engaging in sexually immoral acts (adultery, homosex, bestiality, etc.) so it’s his duty as an observant Orthodox Jew and follower of the Lubavitcher Rebbe to stop the gays from getting married. That’s the point you keep missing: some Jews (like Benkof) think it’s their duty to try to get the Gentiles to follow the Noahide laws. The don’t want the Gentiles to follow the laws that apply only to Jews, but they consider it important to promote the laws that they think do apply to Gentiles.&quot;

I get that, really. But what David fails to understand is that the first amendment, &quot;Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;&quot;, not only guarantees freedom OF religion, but freedom FROM religion. If my belief is not shared by you, you don&#039;t have to follow it. But he wants to put his religion as superior to mine by enshrining it in writing in the legal constitution. That is unethical, illegal, discriminatory and prejudicial.

And he has no right to do that no matter what his beliefs are or whatever cosmic muffin he prays to. It&#039;s all well and good that is what God commanded Moses, their teacher, but he wasn&#039;t MY teacher! So pardon me if I take offense to his bleatings. In the words of Soft Cell, &quot;Sorry, I don&#039;t pray that way!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>werdna, you wrote: &#8220;Gay marriage falls under the Noahide law which prohibits engaging in sexually immoral acts (adultery, homosex, bestiality, etc.) so it’s his duty as an observant Orthodox Jew and follower of the Lubavitcher Rebbe to stop the gays from getting married. That’s the point you keep missing: some Jews (like Benkof) think it’s their duty to try to get the Gentiles to follow the Noahide laws. The don’t want the Gentiles to follow the laws that apply only to Jews, but they consider it important to promote the laws that they think do apply to Gentiles.&#8221;</p>
<p>I get that, really. But what David fails to understand is that the first amendment, &#8220;Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;&#8221;, not only guarantees freedom OF religion, but freedom FROM religion. If my belief is not shared by you, you don&#8217;t have to follow it. But he wants to put his religion as superior to mine by enshrining it in writing in the legal constitution. That is unethical, illegal, discriminatory and prejudicial.</p>
<p>And he has no right to do that no matter what his beliefs are or whatever cosmic muffin he prays to. It&#8217;s all well and good that is what God commanded Moses, their teacher, but he wasn&#8217;t MY teacher! So pardon me if I take offense to his bleatings. In the words of Soft Cell, &#8220;Sorry, I don&#8217;t pray that way!&#8221;</p>
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