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	<title>Comments on: A Gay-Friendlier Dr. Laura</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302/comment-page-1#comment-13583</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302#comment-13583</guid>
		<description>Carl, 

You are, of course, welcome to your opinions.  I would caution, however, that there does not seem to be any evidence that orientation is mutable to any measurable extent.

Two evangelical therapists, Stanton Jones and Mark Yarhouse, attempted to determine whether orientation could change through religious ministries.  Although they showed that individuals are capable of changing &lt;b&gt;what they call themselves&lt;/b&gt; (a much trumpeted result), they also found that on average there was little to no measurable change in &lt;b&gt;attraction&lt;/b&gt; for their prospective sample.

Those who champion reorientation loudly broadcast stories about those few individuals who reported themselves as having changed.  But when you look at the details, these &quot;heterosexuals&quot; were still plagued with wandering eyes, sex dreams, lustful thoughts and other indications that &quot;heterosexual&quot; was perhaps not a completely honest word choice.  And they certainly don&#039;t mention that one of those few persons later told the coordinators that his reported &quot;change&quot; had been born of a desire to please the researchers and to meet his earnest efforts but had in reality been nothing other than wishful thinking.

Sadly, the evidence, such as it is, argues that very few - if any - persons ever change the direction of their attractions.

That isn&#039;t to say that they cannot craft a happy life either celibate or within an opposite sex marriage.  We all deal with what we are given and sometimes we can find happiness by compromising personal fulfillment to meet our religious values.

But it is to say that so far, unless we are presented with evidence that is yet unknown, I&#039;d have to say that for the vast majority of same-sex attracted individuals, the direction of their attractions (sexual, affectionate, romantic) will not change.

It was this, I believe, that Dr. Laura came to recognize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl, </p>
<p>You are, of course, welcome to your opinions.  I would caution, however, that there does not seem to be any evidence that orientation is mutable to any measurable extent.</p>
<p>Two evangelical therapists, Stanton Jones and Mark Yarhouse, attempted to determine whether orientation could change through religious ministries.  Although they showed that individuals are capable of changing <b>what they call themselves</b> (a much trumpeted result), they also found that on average there was little to no measurable change in <b>attraction</b> for their prospective sample.</p>
<p>Those who champion reorientation loudly broadcast stories about those few individuals who reported themselves as having changed.  But when you look at the details, these &#8220;heterosexuals&#8221; were still plagued with wandering eyes, sex dreams, lustful thoughts and other indications that &#8220;heterosexual&#8221; was perhaps not a completely honest word choice.  And they certainly don&#8217;t mention that one of those few persons later told the coordinators that his reported &#8220;change&#8221; had been born of a desire to please the researchers and to meet his earnest efforts but had in reality been nothing other than wishful thinking.</p>
<p>Sadly, the evidence, such as it is, argues that very few &#8211; if any &#8211; persons ever change the direction of their attractions.</p>
<p>That isn&#8217;t to say that they cannot craft a happy life either celibate or within an opposite sex marriage.  We all deal with what we are given and sometimes we can find happiness by compromising personal fulfillment to meet our religious values.</p>
<p>But it is to say that so far, unless we are presented with evidence that is yet unknown, I&#8217;d have to say that for the vast majority of same-sex attracted individuals, the direction of their attractions (sexual, affectionate, romantic) will not change.</p>
<p>It was this, I believe, that Dr. Laura came to recognize.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302/comment-page-1#comment-13575</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302#comment-13575</guid>
		<description>Jim, 
Agreed.  Basing a position on the experiences of two friends would be silly at best.  My opinion was forged over a number of years from study, insight from a non-religious psychiatrist friend as well as a number of wonderful gay and lesbian friends.  Many thanks for the civility and the opportunity to disagree respectively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,<br />
Agreed.  Basing a position on the experiences of two friends would be silly at best.  My opinion was forged over a number of years from study, insight from a non-religious psychiatrist friend as well as a number of wonderful gay and lesbian friends.  Many thanks for the civility and the opportunity to disagree respectively.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Burroway</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302/comment-page-1#comment-13408</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Burroway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 01:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302#comment-13408</guid>
		<description>Carl,

I&#039;d suggest that you might consider the problem of basing a theory covering every gay person on the planet on the experiences of two close friends. You migjht be surprised that &lt;a href=&quot;http://beyondexgay.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;not everyone shares their experience&lt;/a&gt;. In fact, it&#039;s quite rare.

The best evidence is that there are likely many different factors or combinatins of factors for different people. To suggest that it is always one cause or always another cause, and that this answer applies exactly the same to everyone, is not borne out by science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d suggest that you might consider the problem of basing a theory covering every gay person on the planet on the experiences of two close friends. You migjht be surprised that <a href="http://beyondexgay.com/" rel="nofollow">not everyone shares their experience</a>. In fact, it&#8217;s quite rare.</p>
<p>The best evidence is that there are likely many different factors or combinatins of factors for different people. To suggest that it is always one cause or always another cause, and that this answer applies exactly the same to everyone, is not borne out by science.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302/comment-page-1#comment-13405</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 01:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302#comment-13405</guid>
		<description>Well, carl, until that day happens...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, carl, until that day happens&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302/comment-page-1#comment-13404</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 01:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302#comment-13404</guid>
		<description>Dr. Laura&#039;s recent support of gay callers and, it seems the larger gay community, is surprising.  Before I came to know the stories of two close friends who had once been gay, I was quite convinced the being gay was largely based in genetics.  I now think being gay is based in unresolved conflicts and, one day when it is allowed, good science will bear that finding out.  So, since Dr. Laura is such an astute student of human nature, her recent position on being gay is surprising and disappointing given her larger track record.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Laura&#8217;s recent support of gay callers and, it seems the larger gay community, is surprising.  Before I came to know the stories of two close friends who had once been gay, I was quite convinced the being gay was largely based in genetics.  I now think being gay is based in unresolved conflicts and, one day when it is allowed, good science will bear that finding out.  So, since Dr. Laura is such an astute student of human nature, her recent position on being gay is surprising and disappointing given her larger track record.</p>
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		<title>By: cd</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302/comment-page-1#comment-13374</link>
		<dc:creator>cd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302#comment-13374</guid>
		<description>&quot;I wonder why she “de-converted.” I wonder if it IS just a publicity ploy to get on the good side of the right size audience.&quot;

Oh, going all religious &#039;n&#039; rigid was a kind of fad in the late Nineties.  After all, the Unbelievable had happened: a powerful man had gotten a couple of blowjobs from a younger woman.

I think the Orthodox Jewish thing was a way for &quot;Doctor&quot; Laura to put being part Italian Catholic and part Jewish together- in a retrograde way, or simply the worst parts of both worlds.  (Or maybe it was just all Dennis Prager&#039;s fault. :) )

After a couple of years she apparently got a clue that Jewish Menshlichkeyt and tough Italian femininity were in fact a better mix than Catholic severity plus strict Jewish cultural forms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I wonder why she “de-converted.” I wonder if it IS just a publicity ploy to get on the good side of the right size audience.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh, going all religious &#8216;n&#8217; rigid was a kind of fad in the late Nineties.  After all, the Unbelievable had happened: a powerful man had gotten a couple of blowjobs from a younger woman.</p>
<p>I think the Orthodox Jewish thing was a way for &#8220;Doctor&#8221; Laura to put being part Italian Catholic and part Jewish together- in a retrograde way, or simply the worst parts of both worlds.  (Or maybe it was just all Dennis Prager&#8217;s fault. :) )</p>
<p>After a couple of years she apparently got a clue that Jewish Menshlichkeyt and tough Italian femininity were in fact a better mix than Catholic severity plus strict Jewish cultural forms.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Schalchlin</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302/comment-page-1#comment-13305</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Schalchlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302#comment-13305</guid>
		<description>I also, about a year ago, heard her tell a lesbian caller that if her family did not accept her partner, that it was the family who was in error, and that she should live her life honestly and with integrity with her partner, telling the family to just deal with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also, about a year ago, heard her tell a lesbian caller that if her family did not accept her partner, that it was the family who was in error, and that she should live her life honestly and with integrity with her partner, telling the family to just deal with it.</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302/comment-page-1#comment-13266</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302#comment-13266</guid>
		<description>Mark,

Dr. Laura is pretty free about dispensing attitude, so she should be able to receive as well as give.  Okay, not a very nice attitude on my part... sigh.   

I am glad to here of her deconversion from Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy, fundamentalism with the oft accompanied notion that one can speak for &quot;GOD&quot; with all the incumbent authority, has done more damage than any number of doctors touting their particular cure.  Add the two together and, in short you have a ghastly mess!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>Dr. Laura is pretty free about dispensing attitude, so she should be able to receive as well as give.  Okay, not a very nice attitude on my part&#8230; sigh.   </p>
<p>I am glad to here of her deconversion from Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy, fundamentalism with the oft accompanied notion that one can speak for &#8220;GOD&#8221; with all the incumbent authority, has done more damage than any number of doctors touting their particular cure.  Add the two together and, in short you have a ghastly mess!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302/comment-page-1#comment-13163</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 05:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302#comment-13163</guid>
		<description>I believe in cutting the woman a bit of slack. I used to listen to her before she became anti-gay, and liked her conservative but gay friendly advice. So we can hope her change back to a more gay friendly direction will last.

And I don&#039;t think the idea that children might benefit from having both a strong male and female presence in their life is out of the bounds of reasonable discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe in cutting the woman a bit of slack. I used to listen to her before she became anti-gay, and liked her conservative but gay friendly advice. So we can hope her change back to a more gay friendly direction will last.</p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t think the idea that children might benefit from having both a strong male and female presence in their life is out of the bounds of reasonable discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobs Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302/comment-page-1#comment-13125</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobs Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/07/01/2302#comment-13125</guid>
		<description>About the worst advice I&#039;ve ever heard given in public was a call to &quot;Dr.&quot; Laura by a young single mother who was going to get a GED and some job training. She had to find someone to care for her kid during those hours and was considering day care.

The good &quot;doctor&quot; told her that if she couldn&#039;t find a friend or relative to leave the child with -- if it came to finding a daycare facility -- to just go on welfare and forget about school and job training. &quot;You can always do that later,&quot; she advised. Right. 

There&#039;s no telling how much harm this woman has managed to do in her career, and changing her religion and attitudes more often than she changes her hairdo doesn&#039;t cancel that out. Nor do coy references to her &quot;bluntness&quot; and &quot;honesty.&quot; WTF???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the worst advice I&#8217;ve ever heard given in public was a call to &#8220;Dr.&#8221; Laura by a young single mother who was going to get a GED and some job training. She had to find someone to care for her kid during those hours and was considering day care.</p>
<p>The good &#8220;doctor&#8221; told her that if she couldn&#8217;t find a friend or relative to leave the child with &#8212; if it came to finding a daycare facility &#8212; to just go on welfare and forget about school and job training. &#8220;You can always do that later,&#8221; she advised. Right. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s no telling how much harm this woman has managed to do in her career, and changing her religion and attitudes more often than she changes her hairdo doesn&#8217;t cancel that out. Nor do coy references to her &#8220;bluntness&#8221; and &#8220;honesty.&#8221; WTF???</p>
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