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	<title>Comments on: Biden Seems Good on Gay Issues</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/08/23/2746</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Pepe Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/08/23/2746/comment-page-1#comment-15879</link>
		<dc:creator>Pepe Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=2746#comment-15879</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve given a lot of thought to this whole marriage debate, especially over the last month or so.

Frankly, I see marriage as a religious sacrament or ordinance (depending on your denomination) and given that our civil laws should not dictate religious beliefs, I believe it&#039;s time for the government to get out of marriage altogether. The government needs to stay out of the personal lives as much as possible - for gay people and straight people alike.

That said, getting government out of marriage isn&#039;t an easy proposition. Numerous laws and regulations take marriage into consideration, so perhaps we should start with those. For example, I&#039;d eliminate the ability to file joint tax returns. Birth certificates could be redesigned with blanks for the &quot;Parents&#039; Names&quot; and not list &quot;Mother&quot; and &quot;Father&quot; separately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve given a lot of thought to this whole marriage debate, especially over the last month or so.</p>
<p>Frankly, I see marriage as a religious sacrament or ordinance (depending on your denomination) and given that our civil laws should not dictate religious beliefs, I believe it&#8217;s time for the government to get out of marriage altogether. The government needs to stay out of the personal lives as much as possible &#8211; for gay people and straight people alike.</p>
<p>That said, getting government out of marriage isn&#8217;t an easy proposition. Numerous laws and regulations take marriage into consideration, so perhaps we should start with those. For example, I&#8217;d eliminate the ability to file joint tax returns. Birth certificates could be redesigned with blanks for the &#8220;Parents&#8217; Names&#8221; and not list &#8220;Mother&#8221; and &#8220;Father&#8221; separately.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/08/23/2746/comment-page-1#comment-15832</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=2746#comment-15832</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think I’m neutral on Biden being his running mate. However, the thing that annoys me about both Obama and Biden are their comments about same-sex marriage.

    But I don’t think the government can dictate the definition of marriage to religious institutions.

No one is asking anyone to DICTATE to religious institutions WHOM they offer the religious sacrament of marriage to.
&lt;/i&gt;

Stefano, I get your point, but here&#039;s how I see it.  Obama, Biden, and many other Dems all seem to be either begrudgingly or cautiously recognizing that gay marriage is the right thing to do.
Also, the anti-gay folks talk endlessly of faith and how letting gay folks get married is forcing their church to go against it&#039;s own beliefs, yadda, yadda, ad nauseum.  

What Biden, et all are doing is making the distinction between religious marriage and the actual civil marriage contract.  If you&#039;ve noticed in the polls, while many people are against gay marriage, many of those same people are against banning it with a constitutional amendment.  In essence, people are not ready to say &quot;yes&quot; but recognize that it&#039;s wrong to say &quot;never&quot;.
I think pointing out the religious vs. civil difference is a good message. I feel like the person saying that &quot;gets me&quot; on a certain level they&#039;re just not ready to say &quot;yes&quot;.  I also think that repeating that message of distinction may get those on the fence to think about it more.  

The more cynical side, of course, says that Biden, etc&#039;s, talk of distinction is merely pandering.  It&#039;s a way of saying yes to both sides, of talking out of both sides of your mouth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think I’m neutral on Biden being his running mate. However, the thing that annoys me about both Obama and Biden are their comments about same-sex marriage.</p>
<p>    But I don’t think the government can dictate the definition of marriage to religious institutions.</p>
<p>No one is asking anyone to DICTATE to religious institutions WHOM they offer the religious sacrament of marriage to.<br />
</i></p>
<p>Stefano, I get your point, but here&#8217;s how I see it.  Obama, Biden, and many other Dems all seem to be either begrudgingly or cautiously recognizing that gay marriage is the right thing to do.<br />
Also, the anti-gay folks talk endlessly of faith and how letting gay folks get married is forcing their church to go against it&#8217;s own beliefs, yadda, yadda, ad nauseum.  </p>
<p>What Biden, et all are doing is making the distinction between religious marriage and the actual civil marriage contract.  If you&#8217;ve noticed in the polls, while many people are against gay marriage, many of those same people are against banning it with a constitutional amendment.  In essence, people are not ready to say &#8220;yes&#8221; but recognize that it&#8217;s wrong to say &#8220;never&#8221;.<br />
I think pointing out the religious vs. civil difference is a good message. I feel like the person saying that &#8220;gets me&#8221; on a certain level they&#8217;re just not ready to say &#8220;yes&#8221;.  I also think that repeating that message of distinction may get those on the fence to think about it more.  </p>
<p>The more cynical side, of course, says that Biden, etc&#8217;s, talk of distinction is merely pandering.  It&#8217;s a way of saying yes to both sides, of talking out of both sides of your mouth.</p>
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		<title>By: Stefano A</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/08/23/2746/comment-page-1#comment-15821</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefano A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>To be more clear, what annoys me is how politicians seem to be incapable of pointing out that simple distinction in any way other than to draw this arbitrary line between &quot;marriage&quot; and &quot;civil union&quot;. Enough with the manipulative symantics already....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be more clear, what annoys me is how politicians seem to be incapable of pointing out that simple distinction in any way other than to draw this arbitrary line between &#8220;marriage&#8221; and &#8220;civil union&#8221;. Enough with the manipulative symantics already&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Stefano A</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/08/23/2746/comment-page-1#comment-15819</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefano A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=2746#comment-15819</guid>
		<description>I think I&#039;m neutral on Biden being his running mate. However, the thing that annoys me about both Obama and Biden are their comments about same-sex marriage.



&lt;blockquote&gt;But I don’t think the government can dictate the definition of marriage to religious institutions.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



No one is asking anyone to DICTATE to religious institutions WHOM they offer the religious sacrament of marriage to.

The government has not, does not, and is not being asked to bestow any form of religious meaning on marriage.

I couldn&#039;t give a flying **** what their personal religious beliefs are. Those should have no bearing on CIVIL secular policies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I&#8217;m neutral on Biden being his running mate. However, the thing that annoys me about both Obama and Biden are their comments about same-sex marriage.</p>
<blockquote><p>But I don’t think the government can dictate the definition of marriage to religious institutions.</p></blockquote>
<p>No one is asking anyone to DICTATE to religious institutions WHOM they offer the religious sacrament of marriage to.</p>
<p>The government has not, does not, and is not being asked to bestow any form of religious meaning on marriage.</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t give a flying **** what their personal religious beliefs are. Those should have no bearing on CIVIL secular policies.</p>
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