Comments on: Palin’s Misunderstanding of History http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/09/02/2827 News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:48:04 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: PiaSharn http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/09/02/2827/comment-page-1#comment-16428 PiaSharn Sat, 06 Sep 2008 02:17:34 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=2827#comment-16428 Speaking of inaccurate quotes, the Patrick Henry one that Rick posted appears to be a fake. See this <a href="http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp" rel="nofollow">Snopes article</a> for more information. The bit concerning the quote in question is about 2/3 of the way down the page. Speaking of inaccurate quotes, the Patrick Henry one that Rick posted appears to be a fake. See this Snopes article for more information. The bit concerning the quote in question is about 2/3 of the way down the page.

]]> By: jmc http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/09/02/2827/comment-page-1#comment-16422 jmc Sat, 06 Sep 2008 00:12:54 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=2827#comment-16422 Priya Lynn, thank you. I was just looking for the original location of the quote since there are a few inaccurate ones out there. Priya Lynn, thank you. I was just looking for the original location of the quote since there are a few inaccurate ones out there.

]]> By: Priya Lynn http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/09/02/2827/comment-page-1#comment-16418 Priya Lynn Fri, 05 Sep 2008 23:11:49 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=2827#comment-16418 JMC, I got those quotes from this page: http://bmccreations.com/one_nation/nation.html If you google “I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.” you'll find many pages providing that quote, I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for. JMC, I got those quotes from this page:

http://bmccreations.com/one_nation/nation.html

If you google “I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.” you’ll find many pages providing that quote, I’m not sure exactly what you’re looking for.

]]> By: PiaSharn http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/09/02/2827/comment-page-1#comment-16413 PiaSharn Fri, 05 Sep 2008 20:28:04 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=2827#comment-16413 Rick, I've noticed that you still have not responded to the arguments against your interpretation of Palin's statement. Namely, that she was asked specifically about the Pledge, so why would her response be about something different? Why are you accusing us of making an "illogical leap" when we view her answer within the context of the question she was asked? Rick: <i>"These Founders did not envision our country as an irreligious secular state nor did they see it as a Baptist, Catholic or Muslim state."</i> They also did not envision a country which allowed women to vote or considered slavery to be a crime. So perhaps not doing things exactly the same way that the Founding Fathers did is not always detrimental. Rick, I’ve noticed that you still have not responded to the arguments against your interpretation of Palin’s statement.

Namely, that she was asked specifically about the Pledge, so why would her response be about something different? Why are you accusing us of making an “illogical leap” when we view her answer within the context of the question she was asked?

Rick: “These Founders did not envision our country as an irreligious secular state nor did they see it as a Baptist, Catholic or Muslim state.”

They also did not envision a country which allowed women to vote or considered slavery to be a crime. So perhaps not doing things exactly the same way that the Founding Fathers did is not always detrimental.

]]> By: jmc http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/09/02/2827/comment-page-1#comment-16411 jmc Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:25:05 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=2827#comment-16411 Rick Brentlinger, most historians do not think Washington wrote that prayerbook. Priya Lynn, do you have sources for these two? “I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.” “Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies.” I have not been able to find these in the primary sources, and the second one seems a bit too strong even for Jefferson. We also need to disconnect the issues of orthodoxy and government proclamations. Neither Adams nor Jefferson accepted the divinity of Christ, but Adams did issue proclamations of prayer and thanksgiving while Jefferson did not. The issue is not even one of believing in God. As mentioned above, many orthodox Christians opposed religious declarations by the government. They felt such things were private matters, or they worried those pronouncements would be the camel's nose to further government encroachment. If Palin is fully aware of when the pledge was written and added upon, she still apparently misunderstands this point. Rick Brentlinger, most historians do not think Washington wrote that prayerbook.

Priya Lynn, do you have sources for these two?

“I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.”

“Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies.”

I have not been able to find these in the primary sources, and the second one seems a bit too strong even for Jefferson.

We also need to disconnect the issues of orthodoxy and government proclamations. Neither Adams nor Jefferson accepted the divinity of Christ, but Adams did issue proclamations of prayer and thanksgiving while Jefferson did not. The issue is not even one of believing in God. As mentioned above, many orthodox Christians opposed religious declarations by the government. They felt such things were private matters, or they worried those pronouncements would be the camel’s nose to further government encroachment. If Palin is fully aware of when the pledge was written and added upon, she still apparently misunderstands this point.

]]> By: Priya Lynn http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/09/02/2827/comment-page-1#comment-16409 Priya Lynn Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:47:43 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=2827#comment-16409 James, pray if you're an atheist? Not even at gunpoint. James, pray if you’re an atheist? Not even at gunpoint.

]]> By: St. James http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/09/02/2827/comment-page-1#comment-16406 St. James Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:09:55 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=2827#comment-16406 One or two comments concerned the hypo- thetical question "Would the nation's founders have thought homosexuality was OK?" The concept of sexual orientation was unknown and unrecognized until the last part of the 19th century. In the 18th century, it was likely that an individual may have known a few gay persons, but gays were not thought of a a group (or class) of people. Now that our national leaders know some- thing about the gay condition, none of them seem to have an informed opinion at all. Pray for their enlightenment (even if you're an athiest)! One or two comments concerned the hypo-
thetical question “Would the nation’s
founders have thought homosexuality was
OK?” The concept of sexual orientation was unknown and unrecognized until the last part of the
19th century. In the 18th century, it
was likely that an individual may have
known a few gay persons, but gays were
not thought of a a group (or class) of
people.
Now that our national leaders know some-
thing about the gay condition, none of them seem to have an informed opinion at all.

Pray for their enlightenment (even if you’re an athiest)!

]]> By: Timothy Kincaid http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/09/02/2827/comment-page-1#comment-16403 Timothy Kincaid Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:48:41 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=2827#comment-16403 Emily, Please avoid sweeping generalizations. Emily,

Please avoid sweeping generalizations.

]]> By: Emily K http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/09/02/2827/comment-page-1#comment-16383 Emily K Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:33:42 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=2827#comment-16383 Most Conservatives dabble in Revisionism, I've found. How frightful. Most Conservatives dabble in Revisionism, I’ve found. How frightful.

]]> By: Timothy Kincaid http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/09/02/2827/comment-page-1#comment-16372 Timothy Kincaid Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:14:07 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=2827#comment-16372 Selective sampling from the writings of Jefferson, Washington, and Franklin may falsely lead one to think that these persons were strong Christians. However, the totality of their writings suggests that they were all deists. And while they did believe in a God - perhaps even a provident and beneficent God - they generally did not believe in the virgin birth, the miracles of Christ, the redemptive sacrifice, the Trinity, or in most Christian theology or doctrine. Rick, you do yourself a disservice by seeking to prove what is obviously not true. Rather than defending Palin's comments, you are illustrating a willingness to - as I stated - assign founders beliefs they did not have and to cannonize them for it. Selective sampling from the writings of Jefferson, Washington, and Franklin may falsely lead one to think that these persons were strong Christians.

However, the totality of their writings suggests that they were all deists. And while they did believe in a God – perhaps even a provident and beneficent God – they generally did not believe in the virgin birth, the miracles of Christ, the redemptive sacrifice, the Trinity, or in most Christian theology or doctrine.

Rick, you do yourself a disservice by seeking to prove what is obviously not true. Rather than defending Palin’s comments, you are illustrating a willingness to – as I stated – assign founders beliefs they did not have and to cannonize them for it.

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