Comments on: Utah Mormons Ratchet Up Pro-8 Student Phone Banking http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/08/3397 News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric Mon, 22 Mar 2010 05:36:04 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Kevin http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/08/3397/comment-page-1#comment-18756 Kevin Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:38:13 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3397#comment-18756 America doesn't have a state church that represents "the Authority/Establishment", like many European countries do (Catholic Church in Spain and Italy, Lutheran church in Scandinavia, Anglican church in England etc.) Religion in America is more grassroots and entrepreneurial, with a wide variety of religions to choose from for the finicky American who views choice and convenience as an American value itself. America is big enough to allow almost any kind of religious practice, from Hasidic Judaism to orthodox German Anabaptists to Sihkism to left-wing, pagan, goddess-worship. So to many Americans (if not most), religious freedom is one of the essential characteristics of American democracy. Paradoxically this is why it is so hard to maintain a secular American society and why the barrier between Church and State is under constant attack, even though it is this barrier ALONE that gives us the type of religious freedom that has provided a safe-haven for some of the world's most bizarre religious cults. One last thing, America is Capitalism central. Capitalism in many ways runs counter to many religious values, especially the values of helping the poor, healing the sick, and helping your neighbor (these, I contend, are actually socialist values). So, I believe, religion for many Americans is a substitute for the socialism missing in American capitalistic society. America doesn’t have a state church that represents “the Authority/Establishment”, like many European countries do (Catholic Church in Spain and Italy, Lutheran church in Scandinavia, Anglican church in England etc.) Religion in America is more grassroots and entrepreneurial, with a wide variety of religions to choose from for the finicky American who views choice and convenience as an American value itself.

America is big enough to allow almost any kind of religious practice, from Hasidic Judaism to orthodox German Anabaptists to Sihkism to left-wing, pagan, goddess-worship.

So to many Americans (if not most), religious freedom is one of the essential characteristics of American democracy.

Paradoxically this is why it is so hard to maintain a secular American society and why the barrier between Church and State is under constant attack, even though it is this barrier ALONE that gives us the type of religious freedom that has provided a safe-haven for some of the world’s most bizarre religious cults.

One last thing, America is Capitalism central. Capitalism in many ways runs counter to many religious values, especially the values of helping the poor, healing the sick, and helping your neighbor (these, I contend, are actually socialist values). So, I believe, religion for many Americans is a substitute for the socialism missing in American capitalistic society.

]]> By: Tavdy http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/08/3397/comment-page-1#comment-18748 Tavdy Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:09:24 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3397#comment-18748 What gets me is that in Europe, where many nations still don't have separation of church and state, one of the best ways to pass or defeat a controversial bill is stick a bunch of religious wingnuts on the opposing side - that's what happened with the UK's Civil Partnership Act in 2004 (wow, has it really been that long? YAY!). So how come in America - a secular nation from the day it was founded - the opposite is true? What gets me is that in Europe, where many nations still don’t have separation of church and state, one of the best ways to pass or defeat a controversial bill is stick a bunch of religious wingnuts on the opposing side – that’s what happened with the UK’s Civil Partnership Act in 2004 (wow, has it really been that long? YAY!). So how come in America – a secular nation from the day it was founded – the opposite is true?

]]> By: Kevin http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/08/3397/comment-page-1#comment-18697 Kevin Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:48:40 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3397#comment-18697 Deseret News isn't publishing comments that run counter to the anti-gay message of the Mormon Church or come from non-Mormons criticizing their role in seizing California's Constitution. Deseret News isn’t publishing comments that run counter to the anti-gay message of the Mormon Church or come from non-Mormons criticizing their role in seizing California’s Constitution.

]]> By: johnson http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/08/3397/comment-page-1#comment-18694 johnson Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:07:19 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3397#comment-18694 Read the Articles (and comments,especially) in both SLC Utah newspapers www.sltrib and the LDS Church-owned www.deseretnews.com. Very interesting stuff! Read the Articles (and comments,especially) in both SLC Utah newspapers http://www.sltrib and the LDS Church-owned http://www.deseretnews.com. Very interesting stuff!

]]> By: Kevin http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/08/3397/comment-page-1#comment-18669 Kevin Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:06:20 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3397#comment-18669 The Utah Mormons seem to be having some problems: http://wikileaks.org/leak/lds-proposition8-notes-2008.pdf The Utah Mormons seem to be having some problems:

http://wikileaks.org/leak/lds-proposition8-notes-2008.pdf

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