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	<title>Comments on: A Newspaper Endorses Proposition 8</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/11/3594/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/11/3594</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: mary jones</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/11/3594/comment-page-1#comment-21460</link>
		<dc:creator>mary jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3594#comment-21460</guid>
		<description>tell me,is there any good reasons for voting yes on 8? All i can get out of people is that &quot;it will restore traditional marrage&quot; and &quot;gay marriage will be taught to our children in school&quot;. Guess what? there are a whole lot worse things in school. Take it from the seventh grader who is typing this out. If this passes, we will be discriminating people. I thought this was supposed to be a free country. Think about it. what if your child or granchild was gay? would you want them not to be able to marry thier true love?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tell me,is there any good reasons for voting yes on 8? All i can get out of people is that &#8220;it will restore traditional marrage&#8221; and &#8220;gay marriage will be taught to our children in school&#8221;. Guess what? there are a whole lot worse things in school. Take it from the seventh grader who is typing this out. If this passes, we will be discriminating people. I thought this was supposed to be a free country. Think about it. what if your child or granchild was gay? would you want them not to be able to marry thier true love?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/11/3594/comment-page-1#comment-19608</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3594#comment-19608</guid>
		<description>I get VERY tired of the religious argument when it comes to gay marriage.  ALL marriages should become civil marriages, as they are in France.  The government there does not recognize religious ceremonies, and EVERY couple must go to city hall to get married.  If a couple wants holy matrimony in a house of worship, then they are entitled to it, but it isn&#039;t a legal marriage.  Wouldn&#039;t that once and for all end this silly debate about what the bible has to say?  So, shouldn&#039;t atheists have a right to marry, too?  Take your god out of MY government!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get VERY tired of the religious argument when it comes to gay marriage.  ALL marriages should become civil marriages, as they are in France.  The government there does not recognize religious ceremonies, and EVERY couple must go to city hall to get married.  If a couple wants holy matrimony in a house of worship, then they are entitled to it, but it isn&#8217;t a legal marriage.  Wouldn&#8217;t that once and for all end this silly debate about what the bible has to say?  So, shouldn&#8217;t atheists have a right to marry, too?  Take your god out of MY government!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/11/3594/comment-page-1#comment-19607</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3594#comment-19607</guid>
		<description>It should come as no surprise that the Mormon religion which used to forbid blacks from joining their cult are the main group behind the proposition that will eliminate the rights of another minority group.  Also, does anyone know if the rumor I heard is true?  Are the Knights of Columbus (another big sponsor of Prop 8) aligned with the Ku Klux Klan? I heard that they are the Catholic version of the Ku Klux Klan. Anyone who supports Prop 8 should think twice before adding their support to groups such as these.  They are NOT about personal liberties and freedom.  Quite the opposite, their goal is to take away civil rights.  They need to be exposed for who they are....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should come as no surprise that the Mormon religion which used to forbid blacks from joining their cult are the main group behind the proposition that will eliminate the rights of another minority group.  Also, does anyone know if the rumor I heard is true?  Are the Knights of Columbus (another big sponsor of Prop 8) aligned with the Ku Klux Klan? I heard that they are the Catholic version of the Ku Klux Klan. Anyone who supports Prop 8 should think twice before adding their support to groups such as these.  They are NOT about personal liberties and freedom.  Quite the opposite, their goal is to take away civil rights.  They need to be exposed for who they are&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: piper</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/11/3594/comment-page-1#comment-18974</link>
		<dc:creator>piper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 03:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3594#comment-18974</guid>
		<description>Kevin 
I totally agree with you, and will read your post more in depth after I write a paper for one of my college classes.  I noticed your discussion of 1&amp;2nd Timothy, which, when in discussion with some of my friends I have mentioned and tried to go into more depth about the problems with the language, and the fact that they were written for specific people and town churches.  I don;t think that I can understand the Bible new or old testament without understanding some about the cultures that birthed them

Thank you for your heartfelt words and while I can&#039;t donate money ( I literally have 2 dollars in my bank account), I have been talking to my grandma in Florida, and my family in California about these amendments.  Thankfully my Grandma is already in opposition to the amendment, but my Uncle is taking a little longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin<br />
I totally agree with you, and will read your post more in depth after I write a paper for one of my college classes.  I noticed your discussion of 1&amp;2nd Timothy, which, when in discussion with some of my friends I have mentioned and tried to go into more depth about the problems with the language, and the fact that they were written for specific people and town churches.  I don;t think that I can understand the Bible new or old testament without understanding some about the cultures that birthed them</p>
<p>Thank you for your heartfelt words and while I can&#8217;t donate money ( I literally have 2 dollars in my bank account), I have been talking to my grandma in Florida, and my family in California about these amendments.  Thankfully my Grandma is already in opposition to the amendment, but my Uncle is taking a little longer.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/11/3594/comment-page-1#comment-18954</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 21:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3594#comment-18954</guid>
		<description>PS Please ignore my numerous grammatical and spelling errors!

ex: &quot;in abstentia&quot;...correct: &quot;in absentia&quot;

;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS Please ignore my numerous grammatical and spelling errors!</p>
<p>ex: &#8220;in abstentia&#8221;&#8230;correct: &#8220;in absentia&#8221;</p>
<p>;)</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/11/3594/comment-page-1#comment-18944</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 21:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3594#comment-18944</guid>
		<description>Piper,

As a Christian, even though you don&#039;t live in one of these states, you may feel called to act in ways you find acceptable with the teachings of Christ and the acts of the apostles.

For some Christians, salvation is achieved through good works and faith, although some Christians have differing opinions on the topic of salvation and don&#039;t necessarily equate good works with it.  That&#039;s a legitimate discourse, however - good works seems to me to be a good default regardless of belief or theology.

I think also by studying with an open mind and thirst for knowledge the origins of the Church, the authentic gospel of Jesus, the historical Jesus, the history of Judea in the first century under Roman rule, Jewish and Roman cultural norms during the era of Christ, and the evolution and translation of the modern bible (Hebrew bible and New Covenant), you gain a deeper and more authoritative knowledge than your typical &quot;bible-thumper&quot; who quotes scripture out of context in order to further a prejudice that they base in the bible.

For example, anti-gay Christians who seek to cite New Testament (aka &quot;New Covenant&quot;) scripture to show homosexuality as especially sinful use passages in Romans and 1&amp;2 Timothy.  Both of these references are highly disputed, especially Romans.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc.htm

Also, many anti-gay Christians either overlook or are unaware the passage in Matthew 8 regarding Jesus healing the Centurion&#039;s &quot;servant&quot;, which the Centurion was distraught over.  Anyone who has studied Roman history would immediately find this extremely odd - that a Roman citizen would feel anything at all for a slave, since slaves were viewed as lower than animals and Roman citizens were quite use to slaves being slaughtered for entertainment. 

In fact, the original Greek calls this person in Matthew a &quot;pais&quot;, which the Greeks would know as the younger lover of an older man.

Jesus, upon witnessing the Centurion&#039;s grief over his lover and the extraordinary faith of, not a Jew like Jesus and his disciples, but a Gentile (!) to follow Christ rewards him and heals the youth.  There is no condemning.  No reservations.  Jesus rewards those who have faith, blesses them, and - even more radically - rewards the loved ones of the faithful &quot;in abstentia&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Piper,</p>
<p>As a Christian, even though you don&#8217;t live in one of these states, you may feel called to act in ways you find acceptable with the teachings of Christ and the acts of the apostles.</p>
<p>For some Christians, salvation is achieved through good works and faith, although some Christians have differing opinions on the topic of salvation and don&#8217;t necessarily equate good works with it.  That&#8217;s a legitimate discourse, however &#8211; good works seems to me to be a good default regardless of belief or theology.</p>
<p>I think also by studying with an open mind and thirst for knowledge the origins of the Church, the authentic gospel of Jesus, the historical Jesus, the history of Judea in the first century under Roman rule, Jewish and Roman cultural norms during the era of Christ, and the evolution and translation of the modern bible (Hebrew bible and New Covenant), you gain a deeper and more authoritative knowledge than your typical &#8220;bible-thumper&#8221; who quotes scripture out of context in order to further a prejudice that they base in the bible.</p>
<p>For example, anti-gay Christians who seek to cite New Testament (aka &#8220;New Covenant&#8221;) scripture to show homosexuality as especially sinful use passages in Romans and 1&amp;2 Timothy.  Both of these references are highly disputed, especially Romans.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc.htm</a></p>
<p>Also, many anti-gay Christians either overlook or are unaware the passage in Matthew 8 regarding Jesus healing the Centurion&#8217;s &#8220;servant&#8221;, which the Centurion was distraught over.  Anyone who has studied Roman history would immediately find this extremely odd &#8211; that a Roman citizen would feel anything at all for a slave, since slaves were viewed as lower than animals and Roman citizens were quite use to slaves being slaughtered for entertainment. </p>
<p>In fact, the original Greek calls this person in Matthew a &#8220;pais&#8221;, which the Greeks would know as the younger lover of an older man.</p>
<p>Jesus, upon witnessing the Centurion&#8217;s grief over his lover and the extraordinary faith of, not a Jew like Jesus and his disciples, but a Gentile (!) to follow Christ rewards him and heals the youth.  There is no condemning.  No reservations.  Jesus rewards those who have faith, blesses them, and &#8211; even more radically &#8211; rewards the loved ones of the faithful &#8220;in abstentia&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: piper</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/11/3594/comment-page-1#comment-18939</link>
		<dc:creator>piper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3594#comment-18939</guid>
		<description>As a christian (who is going to attempt to become a pastor[getting ready to start candidacy])  And a liberal I find it offensive when people refer as Tamara did to the &quot;majority of Christians&quot; as basically un-accepting of gay rights.  Christians are a diverse, huge group, and I was raised by Christians who not only believe that the Queer community deserves full marriage rights, I am one of those Christians!

BTW as a Texan I can&#039;t vote on any of these amendments, sometimes I feel like the hearts and minds phase of the Texas race for equality is 10 marathons strung together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a christian (who is going to attempt to become a pastor[getting ready to start candidacy])  And a liberal I find it offensive when people refer as Tamara did to the &#8220;majority of Christians&#8221; as basically un-accepting of gay rights.  Christians are a diverse, huge group, and I was raised by Christians who not only believe that the Queer community deserves full marriage rights, I am one of those Christians!</p>
<p>BTW as a Texan I can&#8217;t vote on any of these amendments, sometimes I feel like the hearts and minds phase of the Texas race for equality is 10 marathons strung together.</p>
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		<title>By: Stefano A</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/11/3594/comment-page-1#comment-18869</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefano A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3594#comment-18869</guid>
		<description>Now, some may denounce mere tolerance as being no longer acceptable and instead demand acceptance by all. But that is another issue entirely than what I was addressing about the meaning of the word tolerate or the phrase &quot;to tolerate&quot;. And even then they are not using tolerate as being synonymous of acceptance. The words have two distinct and still current meanings. Unless you are aware of some small doctrinal group that has made the meaning of the two words synonymouos. Which I do not believe to be the case in standard usage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, some may denounce mere tolerance as being no longer acceptable and instead demand acceptance by all. But that is another issue entirely than what I was addressing about the meaning of the word tolerate or the phrase &#8220;to tolerate&#8221;. And even then they are not using tolerate as being synonymous of acceptance. The words have two distinct and still current meanings. Unless you are aware of some small doctrinal group that has made the meaning of the two words synonymouos. Which I do not believe to be the case in standard usage.</p>
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		<title>By: Stefano A</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/11/3594/comment-page-1#comment-18868</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefano A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3594#comment-18868</guid>
		<description>Oh, and I meant abstruse with its &quot;esoteric&quot; connotation not obtuse. (My bad.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and I meant abstruse with its &#8220;esoteric&#8221; connotation not obtuse. (My bad.)</p>
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		<title>By: Stefano A</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/11/3594/comment-page-1#comment-18867</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefano A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3594#comment-18867</guid>
		<description>Hmmm. Sorry for the runon list of dictionary references without punction. The list code did not work and I hadn&#039;t previewed my post to see if it would be accepted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm. Sorry for the runon list of dictionary references without punction. The list code did not work and I hadn&#8217;t previewed my post to see if it would be accepted.</p>
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