<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: An Open Letter to Madonna</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/15/3800/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/15/3800</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 02:59:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/15/3800/comment-page-1#comment-19188</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3800#comment-19188</guid>
		<description>Priya,
It&#039;s my understanding that no direct donation for or against prop 8 can be anonymous.  All are a matter of public record, donors are not allowed to be anonymous in this situation.


I have not found out (cause I really haven&#039;t bothered) whether or not 3rd Parties can donate on someone&#039;s behalf.  In other words Madonna gives money to &quot;Up With Homos, Inc&quot; that gives money to &quot;No on Prop 8&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Priya,<br />
It&#8217;s my understanding that no direct donation for or against prop 8 can be anonymous.  All are a matter of public record, donors are not allowed to be anonymous in this situation.</p>
<p>I have not found out (cause I really haven&#8217;t bothered) whether or not 3rd Parties can donate on someone&#8217;s behalf.  In other words Madonna gives money to &#8220;Up With Homos, Inc&#8221; that gives money to &#8220;No on Prop 8&#8243;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/15/3800/comment-page-1#comment-19182</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3800#comment-19182</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d add that I don&#039;t think Madonna is particularly concerned about what the new testament says.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d add that I don&#8217;t think Madonna is particularly concerned about what the new testament says.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/15/3800/comment-page-1#comment-19181</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3800#comment-19181</guid>
		<description>Quo, I don&#039;t think Timothy wrote that post in the sincere hope that Madonna would read it.  I suspect he wrote it as a statment on the situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quo, I don&#8217;t think Timothy wrote that post in the sincere hope that Madonna would read it.  I suspect he wrote it as a statment on the situation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: quo III</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/15/3800/comment-page-1#comment-19180</link>
		<dc:creator>quo III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3800#comment-19180</guid>
		<description>Timothy,

This is not intended to be a rude question, but what makes you think that Madonna is going to read your post? Incidentally, public announcements of one&#039;s own charity are forbidden in the New Testament.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy,</p>
<p>This is not intended to be a rude question, but what makes you think that Madonna is going to read your post? Incidentally, public announcements of one&#8217;s own charity are forbidden in the New Testament.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/15/3800/comment-page-1#comment-19176</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3800#comment-19176</guid>
		<description>I would also add that none of us really know the state of individual celebrities&#039; finances at any given time.

While, arguably, Madonna is quite wealthy, she&#039;s in the middle of a tour where a lot of her capital may be currently tied up, peoples&#039; investments are tanking all over the place, and, as another pointed out, she&#039;s in the middle of a divorce in which her expenditures very well may play a part in the settlement...the point is, who knows?  

Also, she already gives quite a lot to charitable causes, so it&#039;s not like we&#039;re dealing with someone who&#039;s stingy about the things she cares about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would also add that none of us really know the state of individual celebrities&#8217; finances at any given time.</p>
<p>While, arguably, Madonna is quite wealthy, she&#8217;s in the middle of a tour where a lot of her capital may be currently tied up, peoples&#8217; investments are tanking all over the place, and, as another pointed out, she&#8217;s in the middle of a divorce in which her expenditures very well may play a part in the settlement&#8230;the point is, who knows?  </p>
<p>Also, she already gives quite a lot to charitable causes, so it&#8217;s not like we&#8217;re dealing with someone who&#8217;s stingy about the things she cares about.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/15/3800/comment-page-1#comment-19171</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3800#comment-19171</guid>
		<description>In light of the suggestions that Madonna&#039;s open opposition to Prop 8 might hurt more than help, perhaps she&#039;s given anonymously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In light of the suggestions that Madonna&#8217;s open opposition to Prop 8 might hurt more than help, perhaps she&#8217;s given anonymously.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/15/3800/comment-page-1#comment-19165</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3800#comment-19165</guid>
		<description>Jason D,

Maybe Ellen DeGeneres is so involved because unlike Cher, Madonna, Bette Midler, and almost every other entertainer that reinforces the &quot;fabulous&quot; gay stereotype, she will lose rights if Prop 8 passes.

This whole argument is ridiculous.  Gay people don&#039;t need Madonna any more than she needs us.  We should spend less time pleading with middle-aged celebrities who have their own problems to deal with and more time garnering support among politicians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason D,</p>
<p>Maybe Ellen DeGeneres is so involved because unlike Cher, Madonna, Bette Midler, and almost every other entertainer that reinforces the &#8220;fabulous&#8221; gay stereotype, she will lose rights if Prop 8 passes.</p>
<p>This whole argument is ridiculous.  Gay people don&#8217;t need Madonna any more than she needs us.  We should spend less time pleading with middle-aged celebrities who have their own problems to deal with and more time garnering support among politicians.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/15/3800/comment-page-1#comment-19159</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3800#comment-19159</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t bought a Madonna LP since cassette tapes were the medium of choice....

If anyone deserves to give back to this gay, it&#039;s the estates of Karen Carpenter, Dusty Springfield, and Oum Kolthoum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t bought a Madonna LP since cassette tapes were the medium of choice&#8230;.</p>
<p>If anyone deserves to give back to this gay, it&#8217;s the estates of Karen Carpenter, Dusty Springfield, and Oum Kolthoum.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/15/3800/comment-page-1#comment-19157</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3800#comment-19157</guid>
		<description>While I&#039;m not a fan of threats and guilt....

I do think it&#039;s fair to remind Madonna, Cher, Bette (ellen has done PLENTY of work to defeat prop 8 BTW) who their fans are, and that we need them.

BUT, I do think another poster brought up a great point.

Madonna is not exactly everyone&#039;s favorite person these days.  She&#039;s pissed off just about every Christian in the country on some level, so sticking her face into this fray might not be wise.  Think about it Divorcing Diva Supports Gay Marriage --- I think the earthquake from the collective eye-roll of the fundies would be felt all over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I&#8217;m not a fan of threats and guilt&#8230;.</p>
<p>I do think it&#8217;s fair to remind Madonna, Cher, Bette (ellen has done PLENTY of work to defeat prop 8 BTW) who their fans are, and that we need them.</p>
<p>BUT, I do think another poster brought up a great point.</p>
<p>Madonna is not exactly everyone&#8217;s favorite person these days.  She&#8217;s pissed off just about every Christian in the country on some level, so sticking her face into this fray might not be wise.  Think about it Divorcing Diva Supports Gay Marriage &#8212; I think the earthquake from the collective eye-roll of the fundies would be felt all over.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CLS</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/15/3800/comment-page-1#comment-19146</link>
		<dc:creator>CLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=3800#comment-19146</guid>
		<description>I usually enjoy this site but this post was nonsense. Let’s recap the thesis. Entertainers make money from gay people and thus they owe something back. 

Now imagine Madonna or any other entertainer, going through a divorce perhaps, announcing to gay people: “You’ve enjoyed my music for years. Now your owe something back.” What would we say to that? We’d tell her: “Hey, we paid for that music. We bought concert tickets, albums, CDs, etc. At each point we gave you money to enjoy your music. We don’t owe you anything.”

Entertainment is an exchange. Madonna worked and produced music that you voluntarily bought. In fact you bought the entertainment precisely because you thought it was worth what you paid or more. If you though the music wasn’t worth what you paid you wouldn’t have bought it. You did an exchange.

Your entire premise is built on the assumption that when you buy a product from someone you are engaging in charity and building up credit where they owe you something. That is absurd. I never went to anyone’s concert because of pity and a sense of charity. I went because I valued what I got. If you didn’t value it then you certainly aren’t a “fan” by any definition. 

So what does any entertainer owe us? No more than the local grocer owes us or the electric company or the newspaper we buy. And what do we owe them? Nothing -- we paid for what we got and got something for what we paid. The exchange made us both better off or we wouldn’t have done it voluntarily and last I checked purchasing Madonna albums (which I’ve never done actually)  is voluntary. That means with each transaction no one is building up chips to be called in later when wanted. You got what you paid for, if you don’t think you did, then you should have stopped paying long ago.

But, Madonna, et. al., it would be nice if you all could help. We really need your help to fight some nasty individuals who want to use the state to enforce their own values on the rest of us. Your help is appreciated for sure especially because we understand you have no financial obligation to do so. And I apologize for the people who make demands that they have no right making. Also, I should point out that such help in the long run will pay off as we won’t forget generosity and friends who help when we need it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I usually enjoy this site but this post was nonsense. Let’s recap the thesis. Entertainers make money from gay people and thus they owe something back. </p>
<p>Now imagine Madonna or any other entertainer, going through a divorce perhaps, announcing to gay people: “You’ve enjoyed my music for years. Now your owe something back.” What would we say to that? We’d tell her: “Hey, we paid for that music. We bought concert tickets, albums, CDs, etc. At each point we gave you money to enjoy your music. We don’t owe you anything.”</p>
<p>Entertainment is an exchange. Madonna worked and produced music that you voluntarily bought. In fact you bought the entertainment precisely because you thought it was worth what you paid or more. If you though the music wasn’t worth what you paid you wouldn’t have bought it. You did an exchange.</p>
<p>Your entire premise is built on the assumption that when you buy a product from someone you are engaging in charity and building up credit where they owe you something. That is absurd. I never went to anyone’s concert because of pity and a sense of charity. I went because I valued what I got. If you didn’t value it then you certainly aren’t a “fan” by any definition. </p>
<p>So what does any entertainer owe us? No more than the local grocer owes us or the electric company or the newspaper we buy. And what do we owe them? Nothing &#8212; we paid for what we got and got something for what we paid. The exchange made us both better off or we wouldn’t have done it voluntarily and last I checked purchasing Madonna albums (which I’ve never done actually)  is voluntary. That means with each transaction no one is building up chips to be called in later when wanted. You got what you paid for, if you don’t think you did, then you should have stopped paying long ago.</p>
<p>But, Madonna, et. al., it would be nice if you all could help. We really need your help to fight some nasty individuals who want to use the state to enforce their own values on the rest of us. Your help is appreciated for sure especially because we understand you have no financial obligation to do so. And I apologize for the people who make demands that they have no right making. Also, I should point out that such help in the long run will pay off as we won’t forget generosity and friends who help when we need it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
