You separate American conservative religion from American right wing political commitments. That may be true for quite a few people, but the overlap/coincidence in my experience is substantial enough- around 50% in the places and churches I have been.

Also, Dr. Mohler’s argument is an argumentum ad populum. Simply because a majority of nations do or do not support it does not determine the ethics of what should be done (I need simply to refer to the majority “Christian” opinion of the 19th century that was pro-slavery). Fundamentalists need to be confronted with their distortions of reality as it may, as was the case with myself, provide them the realization someday that they are not part of the elect few who have been illuminated as to what the Bible “really says.”

Papal infallability was only defined in the 19th century. It is part of Roman Catholic doctrine today, while you make it seem like an ancient and outdated belief in Christian circles.

Are you taking the position that this Catholic teaching is wrong?

Actually, that’s not true. I was at the Out for Work conference a few weeks ago, and one of the presentations was on demographics and earning. Studies show that with only one exception, gay people generally earn less than their straight counterparts, with the exception being white lesbians, who generally earn more than white straight women (this does not hold true for women of color).

The fact that we (may) often have affluence or more disposable income is more often due to our not having children or other expenses that straight people/couples have.

I would say that your statistics most likely apply only to uncloseted homosexuals. IMHO, gays are more likely to be closeted in the working class, in rural areas, and generally in areas that one might consider “less developed” or “less educated.” And those gays definitely are no less gay, and they certainly don’t make as much money as Ellen or that Merrill guy from Merrill-Lynch.

I’m out to all of my friends over there, and I’ve known a lot of Chinese people who are out their friends and families as well.

And I guess Mohler forgets that the Bible’s interpretation has constantly changed (in Protestant tradition) with liberal scholars (Luther, Calvin, Anselm, etc) pushing an agenda (and they did have an agenda!) and in light of contemporary developments like astronomy, eugenics, better translations, and access to older copies of the Bible than ever before. There’s nothing new under the sun.

But Mohler is just preaching to the choir (a Baptist paper), not trying to create an apologetic. That rhetoric is for rallying the troops and cannot possibly convince anyone who doesn’t already agree with him.

@cd

It’s sounds like you have a heavy axe to grind against Christians and are more concerned about that than what Christianity or the Bible hold true. I do agree with your basic conclusions, I just think you get there all wrong. Among your basic errors are implying that Christian history/tradition has anything BUT an extremely negative view of homosexuality and that its negative view was imported from paganism; the Protestant church does not much like Eastern European Christianity which is Orthodox and have had a strong “missionary” presence trying to convert them into more American/W European ideas both religious and social; “Mohler and the rest really don’t have a Biblical case to oppose female-to-female marriage” you really think that? And I do not think at all that Christians only count whites as “real Christians.” While we’re as racist as non-Christian Americans, we’re rejoicing at the current upsurge in Christianity in South America now and Anglicans favorite priest right now is from Africa.

Quite possibly not for much longer – the wording of the CT ruling is such that it could be used as legal precedence over here and, combined with upcoming EU legislation prohibiting discrimination within and by EU member states, the 24 EU states that don’t yet have gay marriage could be forced to legalise it by the Court of First Instance or European Court of Justice. Those 24 states have a combined population of around 425 million. Importantly (and unlike in the US) a legal decision that grants a civil right cannot be overturned by a referendum – the European Court of Human Rights would prevent it.

The keys are the precise wording used in the EU legislation (I’m trusting the EU Parliament to stand their ground on this one) and getting the CFI/ECJ to accept the CT ruling as precedence.