There will always be those, regardless of religion, upbringing, or personal lifestyle, that think they have a gift or right to lead other people, to make choices for them, or to prevent them from doing some unseen harm to themselves or others. I would have to place these people in the category of politicians… but that’s just my opinion. You’re entitled to your own.
-Kristin

Perhaps you misunderstood. Yours, and probably others of the 18,000 weddings that took place, did not contain a religious component.

But Kelsha was complaining about a religious text that was burned. I was making the point that she and her church had demeaned the religious service that many of those 18,000 people held.

Whoever burn the Book of Mormon offended her religious faith. But by changing the constitution to recognize the marriages that her church deems worthy and to forbid the marriages that my church and many many others deem worthy was also a religious offense.

And for those ready to point out the obvious:

Yes I know that marriage is civil and not religious when recognized by the State.

I’m trying to get through to Kelsha that by seeking to impose a religious litmus test on State recognition, she was doing EXACTLY what she accused us of doing: offending religion.

Officiator: Brother ______, [naming groom] and Sister ______, [naming bride] please join hands in the Patriarchal Grip or Sure Sign of the Nail.

Marriage Couple: Joins hands in the “Patriarchal Grip, or Sure Sign of the Nail.” This token is given by clasping the right hands, interlocking the little fingers and placing the tip of the forefinger upon the center of the wrist. No clothing should interfere with the contact of the forefinger upon the wrist.

Officiator: Brother ______, do you take Sister ______ by the right hand and receive her unto yourself to be your lawful and wedded wife for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Groom: Yes.

Officiator: Sister ______ do you take brother ______ by the right hand and give yourself to him to be his lawful and wedded wife, and for him to be your lawful and wedded husband, for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Bride: Yes.

Officiator: By virtue of the Holy Priesthood and the authority vested in me, I pronounce you ______, and ______, legally and lawfully husband and wife for time and all eternity, and I seal upon you the blessings of the holy resurrection with power to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection clothed in glory, immortality and eternal lives, and I seal upon you the blessings of kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions and exaltations, with all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and say unto you: be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth that you may have joy and rejoicing in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. All these blessings, together with all the blessings appertaining unto the New and Everlasting Covenant, I seal upon you by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, through your faithfulness, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.

Anyone else notice any difference between these two ceremonies?

To begin with I don’t believe in God and Tim is not too inclined either. So, why would we want our marriage blessed by anything we don’t believe in? So, it’s ridiculous to believe that gays would force churches to marry them. What the hell for? We don’t go to their church, we don’t believe in God, why would I set foot in the place and force a priest to marry us?

It’s bad enough that people see no difference between a “holy” church marriage and a secular “civil” marriage.

For the sake of clarity, I will post the secular, “civil” marriage vows that my husband Tim and I vowed to each other on that beautiful San Diego day.

After that I have posted the marriage vows that Mormons say to each other when they get married by their church.

These are the vows that Louie spoke to Tim:
“I Louie, take you, Tim, to be my lawfully wedded spouse. To have and to hold, from this day forward. For better or for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. To love and cherish.”

These are the vows that Tim spoke to Louie:
“I Tim, take you, Louie, to be my lawfully wedded spouse. To have and to hold, from this day forward. For better or for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. To love and cherish.”

Louie places the ring on Tim’s finger and says:
“Tim, I give you this ring as a pledge of my faith and love and a symbol of our unity.”

Tim places the ring on Louie’s finger and says:
“Louie, I give you this ring as a pledge of my faith and love and a symbol of our unity.”

The San Diego County Deputy Marriage Commissioner says:
“Now that you have joined yourselves in solemn matrimony and have become one, may you sincerely strive all your lives to meet this commitment with the same love and devotion that brought you here today. By virtue of the authority vested in me as Deputy Commissioner of Civil Marriages in and for the County of San Diego, I take great pleasure in announcing that from this very moment, you are now united in marriage. You may know seal your vows with a kiss.”

I should highlight that the Deputy Marriage Commissioner was not an ordained minister, but rather a public employee whose salary is paid for with taxpayer money. And she did not hold a Bible in her hand or any other “holy” book of any other religion.

I condemn any act of vandalism or violence, though I would condemn the burning of the Book of Mormon because of the possibility that it could cause a fire, not because it’s disrespectful.

Still, what the LDS church has done, along with every single person who donated to Yes On 8 and voted in favor of the amendment, is an act of legislative violence against gay people. Gay couples across California that have been together for years or decades are now confined to a status inferior to that of two drunks in Las Vegas who get hitched for a day at a drive-in wedding chapel.

And if you want to talk about physical violence, gays are one of the main groups targeted for hate crimes, and we suffer the most violent attacks.

Your point about our reaction should be “overjoyed” is spot on. How could they not foresee our reaction if the Propositions passed as they did? It doesn’t take a fortune-teller.

Kelsha,

please, go and read some of the stuff on:
mormonsformarriage.com

I can’t believe some people think I should live my life alone and never love or be loved. That’s too sadistic. At least Rev. Phelps wants us to die. That would be less painful.

I condemn any harm or violence against any people of faith for any reason, I condemn any disrespect.

Will Kelsha do the same?

Or will se say “I have a right to my beliefs!” and run off, never understanding that her freedom of religion does not trump my freedom of religion?

You tell such a sad tale. A Book of Mormon was burnt on a church steps. Some windows were shot out by a bb gun.

Ironically, in March of this year there were reports that some Mormon missionaries vandalized a Catholic shrine in Colorado.

Now I’m sure you condemn the vandalism by your Church’s missionaries. And I condemn the vandalism at your churches (whether it was by gays or not).

But if we want to talk about damage and vandalism and fear, lets start with the 18,000 couples that your church attacked. While burning a Book of Mormon – a sacred text – is very disrespectful, it falls far far short of the disrespect you have shown to those couples, their families, their communities, and their churches.

I’m willing to condemn the disrespect shown your text. Are you willing to condemn the disrespect shown by your church and its leadership to the sacred vows of 18,000 couples?

Your comments were caught in a spam filter. I just released them.