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	<title>Comments on: HRC&#8217;s Self-Parody</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/11/6117</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: bp3xs</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/11/6117/comment-page-1#comment-24613</link>
		<dc:creator>bp3xs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6117#comment-24613</guid>
		<description>You people make me very, very sad. Divisiveness is not going to get us anywhere. It&#039;s an old adage but a true one: United we stand; divided we fall.

HRC&#039;s successes and commitment to the nation-wide LGBT community are well documented. So are the successes of NGLTF, NCLR, GLAAD, ECQA -- to name a few. (It&#039;s a shame you people can&#039;t do your homework before writing incendiary and dishonest postings to any blog.) Our civil rights movement would not be as far without all of those organizations. I give time and / or the little extra money I have to all of them because I think it&#039;s that important.

Buck up, people. And, grow up. We need to CONTINUE to build an effective collation, work together, or we will certainly lose the fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You people make me very, very sad. Divisiveness is not going to get us anywhere. It&#8217;s an old adage but a true one: United we stand; divided we fall.</p>
<p>HRC&#8217;s successes and commitment to the nation-wide LGBT community are well documented. So are the successes of NGLTF, NCLR, GLAAD, ECQA &#8212; to name a few. (It&#8217;s a shame you people can&#8217;t do your homework before writing incendiary and dishonest postings to any blog.) Our civil rights movement would not be as far without all of those organizations. I give time and / or the little extra money I have to all of them because I think it&#8217;s that important.</p>
<p>Buck up, people. And, grow up. We need to CONTINUE to build an effective collation, work together, or we will certainly lose the fight.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/11/6117/comment-page-1#comment-23563</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6117#comment-23563</guid>
		<description>Emily K,

If you&#039;re going to respond to my comments, you should do me the courtesy of responding in ways that are related to what I said!

Tim said &#039;we need representation in DC.&#039; Since the HRC function more like a pro-Democrat, pro-leftist group than a gay issues group, I asked just what people he meant by &quot;we.&quot; That is all.

I did no bitching and no moaning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily K,</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re going to respond to my comments, you should do me the courtesy of responding in ways that are related to what I said!</p>
<p>Tim said &#8216;we need representation in DC.&#8217; Since the HRC function more like a pro-Democrat, pro-leftist group than a gay issues group, I asked just what people he meant by &#8220;we.&#8221; That is all.</p>
<p>I did no bitching and no moaning.</p>
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		<title>By: HRC SF Supporter</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/11/6117/comment-page-1#comment-23459</link>
		<dc:creator>HRC SF Supporter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6117#comment-23459</guid>
		<description>I helped organize this event and other HRC events in the SF Bay Area.  I donate a lot of my personal time and resources to HRC, and it&#039;s difficult to read some of the conclusions drawn about this event.

I can tell you this event was planned 3 months ago, and was strictly for social purposes. It was not done as a flippant &quot;oh let&#039;s get facials&quot; event to &quot;move past&quot; Proposition 8.  

HRC has been extremely involved in the campaign.

HRC was a member of the Executive Steering Committee for Non on 8 - along with EQCA, NCLR, and several other organizations.  

For those of you who &quot;wonder&quot; what HRC &quot;did&quot; for No on 8 - in addition to manning endless phone banks and working in critical areas across the state in the San Fernando Valley, San Diego, and more - HRC:

- Raised and donated $3.4 million to the No on 8 campaign.

- HRC dedicated 8 field staff to the campaign, who were spread across the state working with EQCA and other organizations.

- HRC mobilized a massive amount of volunteers in lobbying, phone banks, events on campuses across the state - the list goes on.  

All LGBT people (including me) are angry, distraught, and emotional about what feels like a slap in the face from 52% of Californians.  It hurt us, and made us feel like 2nd class citizens.  It&#039;s painful. Extremely painful. 

But attacking and blaming HRC or any of the other LGBT organizations who worked hard - VERY hard on the campaign to save our rights - is not the answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I helped organize this event and other HRC events in the SF Bay Area.  I donate a lot of my personal time and resources to HRC, and it&#8217;s difficult to read some of the conclusions drawn about this event.</p>
<p>I can tell you this event was planned 3 months ago, and was strictly for social purposes. It was not done as a flippant &#8220;oh let&#8217;s get facials&#8221; event to &#8220;move past&#8221; Proposition 8.  </p>
<p>HRC has been extremely involved in the campaign.</p>
<p>HRC was a member of the Executive Steering Committee for Non on 8 &#8211; along with EQCA, NCLR, and several other organizations.  </p>
<p>For those of you who &#8220;wonder&#8221; what HRC &#8220;did&#8221; for No on 8 &#8211; in addition to manning endless phone banks and working in critical areas across the state in the San Fernando Valley, San Diego, and more &#8211; HRC:</p>
<p>- Raised and donated $3.4 million to the No on 8 campaign.</p>
<p>- HRC dedicated 8 field staff to the campaign, who were spread across the state working with EQCA and other organizations.</p>
<p>- HRC mobilized a massive amount of volunteers in lobbying, phone banks, events on campuses across the state &#8211; the list goes on.  </p>
<p>All LGBT people (including me) are angry, distraught, and emotional about what feels like a slap in the face from 52% of Californians.  It hurt us, and made us feel like 2nd class citizens.  It&#8217;s painful. Extremely painful. </p>
<p>But attacking and blaming HRC or any of the other LGBT organizations who worked hard &#8211; VERY hard on the campaign to save our rights &#8211; is not the answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Garcia</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/11/6117/comment-page-1#comment-23412</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Garcia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6117#comment-23412</guid>
		<description>&quot;HRC is in serious danger of becoming completely irrelevant&quot;...Honey, they have been completely irrelevant for years.
But too many of us are too nice to tell the loser charlatans to get out of town.

The suggestion that we should give HRC a pass because we need &quot;a voice and presence in Washington&quot; is ridiculous.

Better no voice, better no presence than a &#039;voice&#039; that sells us out, and a &#039;presence&#039; that is nothing more than window dressing - and it ain&#039;t a pretty window!

Let&#039;s get out the scale: For all the money HRC has collected and spent what are the legislative and adminstrative victories that it can claim?

I think I&#039;ll have a spa night myself...but it won&#039;t benefit HRC.

And let&#039;s support those who accomplish something for us Lambda, the National Center for Lesbian Rights and NGLTF.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;HRC is in serious danger of becoming completely irrelevant&#8221;&#8230;Honey, they have been completely irrelevant for years.<br />
But too many of us are too nice to tell the loser charlatans to get out of town.</p>
<p>The suggestion that we should give HRC a pass because we need &#8220;a voice and presence in Washington&#8221; is ridiculous.</p>
<p>Better no voice, better no presence than a &#8216;voice&#8217; that sells us out, and a &#8216;presence&#8217; that is nothing more than window dressing &#8211; and it ain&#8217;t a pretty window!</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s get out the scale: For all the money HRC has collected and spent what are the legislative and adminstrative victories that it can claim?</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;ll have a spa night myself&#8230;but it won&#8217;t benefit HRC.</p>
<p>And let&#8217;s support those who accomplish something for us Lambda, the National Center for Lesbian Rights and NGLTF.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/11/6117/comment-page-1#comment-23410</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6117#comment-23410</guid>
		<description>I won&#039;t pretend to know what the people who are commenting here have done, whether time or financial resources, to defeat Proposition 8.  I wish these same people would stop pretending they knew what HRC does or doesn&#039;t do.  It is quite clear that posters have no clue and is a disservice to our community to spread misleading and in some cases, outright lies.

HRC is a national political advocacy group, not a state organization.  They provide resources, human and/or financial, to the state advocacy groups.  In California, they donated over $4 million and six staff members to No on 8.  The No on 8 campaign was run by a broad group of organizations, including Equality California, National Center for Lesbian Rights, The Task Force, among many others.  To somehow select and pick on HRC solely for the passage of Prop 8 is disingenuous.  As a matter of fact, HRC was one of the largest contributors to No on 8 despite the fact that California, specifically San Francisco, was the most vocal against HRC and staged boycotts where fundraisers were held to benefit No on 8.

The success stories of HRC can be found in the 2006 and our most current election cycles.  The well-respected National Journal rated HRC the second most effective PAC (out of 27 or so) in the 2006 elections.  I suspect they will also rate highly in this election cycle.

We Californians are spoiled and especially in San Francisco, we pretty much get what we want.  Therein lies the problem.  We are too complacent.  People didn&#039;t jump on the No on 8 bandwagon until it was too late.  50% of San Franciscans couldn&#039;t even bother to go and vote.  

We are too self-centered and naive to think that Washington is just like Sacramento.  The U.S. Congress comprise of members from ALL 50 different states.  Therefore, passing legislation is much more difficult especially if there is a Republican President and Congress.

To HRC&#039;s credit, they defeated the Federal Marriage Amendment not once, not twice, but three times during a Republican era.  No one else took on this fight but HRC.  If the FMA passed, it would have been the law of the land as Federal laws trump state laws.  In other words, the fight for marriage in states is possible and winning (Connecticut) because the FMA was defeated.  

There are tons more examples of HRC success stories, such as being the key organizations in helping to change the make-up of Congress (notice very little anti-LGBT legislation?), the make-up in State Houses resulting in passage of non-discrimination laws, partner recognition, and most recently in New York, where marriage may be possible now, advocating for Ryan-White funds, eliminating the taxes on deceased partners retirement funds, ridding the discriminatory policy of not allowing people with HIV/AIDS into the U.S., and setting the foundation for eventual passage of an inclusive ENDA and Hate Crimes Legislation.  

I hope to see these same posters come back and praise HRC when significant pieces of legislation is passed and signed into law during the Obama Presidency.

Lastly, don&#039;t tear down our only lobbying organization on Capitol Hill until there is a viable alternative.  Let&#039;s act sensibly and don&#039;t play into our enemy&#039;s hands.  We have people out there who really want to tear our community apart and hurt us.  HRC isn&#039;t our enemy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I won&#8217;t pretend to know what the people who are commenting here have done, whether time or financial resources, to defeat Proposition 8.  I wish these same people would stop pretending they knew what HRC does or doesn&#8217;t do.  It is quite clear that posters have no clue and is a disservice to our community to spread misleading and in some cases, outright lies.</p>
<p>HRC is a national political advocacy group, not a state organization.  They provide resources, human and/or financial, to the state advocacy groups.  In California, they donated over $4 million and six staff members to No on 8.  The No on 8 campaign was run by a broad group of organizations, including Equality California, National Center for Lesbian Rights, The Task Force, among many others.  To somehow select and pick on HRC solely for the passage of Prop 8 is disingenuous.  As a matter of fact, HRC was one of the largest contributors to No on 8 despite the fact that California, specifically San Francisco, was the most vocal against HRC and staged boycotts where fundraisers were held to benefit No on 8.</p>
<p>The success stories of HRC can be found in the 2006 and our most current election cycles.  The well-respected National Journal rated HRC the second most effective PAC (out of 27 or so) in the 2006 elections.  I suspect they will also rate highly in this election cycle.</p>
<p>We Californians are spoiled and especially in San Francisco, we pretty much get what we want.  Therein lies the problem.  We are too complacent.  People didn&#8217;t jump on the No on 8 bandwagon until it was too late.  50% of San Franciscans couldn&#8217;t even bother to go and vote.  </p>
<p>We are too self-centered and naive to think that Washington is just like Sacramento.  The U.S. Congress comprise of members from ALL 50 different states.  Therefore, passing legislation is much more difficult especially if there is a Republican President and Congress.</p>
<p>To HRC&#8217;s credit, they defeated the Federal Marriage Amendment not once, not twice, but three times during a Republican era.  No one else took on this fight but HRC.  If the FMA passed, it would have been the law of the land as Federal laws trump state laws.  In other words, the fight for marriage in states is possible and winning (Connecticut) because the FMA was defeated.  </p>
<p>There are tons more examples of HRC success stories, such as being the key organizations in helping to change the make-up of Congress (notice very little anti-LGBT legislation?), the make-up in State Houses resulting in passage of non-discrimination laws, partner recognition, and most recently in New York, where marriage may be possible now, advocating for Ryan-White funds, eliminating the taxes on deceased partners retirement funds, ridding the discriminatory policy of not allowing people with HIV/AIDS into the U.S., and setting the foundation for eventual passage of an inclusive ENDA and Hate Crimes Legislation.  </p>
<p>I hope to see these same posters come back and praise HRC when significant pieces of legislation is passed and signed into law during the Obama Presidency.</p>
<p>Lastly, don&#8217;t tear down our only lobbying organization on Capitol Hill until there is a viable alternative.  Let&#8217;s act sensibly and don&#8217;t play into our enemy&#8217;s hands.  We have people out there who really want to tear our community apart and hurt us.  HRC isn&#8217;t our enemy.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/11/6117/comment-page-1#comment-23401</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6117#comment-23401</guid>
		<description>Well Dave, good luck getting any conservative party (such as the GOP) to acknowledge our presence in the scope of humanity in any positive way. 

Stop bitching and moaning and get out and make a damn difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Dave, good luck getting any conservative party (such as the GOP) to acknowledge our presence in the scope of humanity in any positive way. </p>
<p>Stop bitching and moaning and get out and make a damn difference.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Monette-Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/11/6117/comment-page-1#comment-23382</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Monette-Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6117#comment-23382</guid>
		<description>If jOHN wants to &quot;know how much of every dollar raised at AIDS Walks really go to the charities and how much goes to the organization that runs the walk with all the volunteers and products that are given to them?&quot; he might visit www.thelastwatch.com.  

While I haven&#039;t updated data on that site for some time, there&#039;s an analysis of the reduction in the amount of money the San Francisco AIDS Foundation shares with other smaller Bay Area AIDS agencies SFAF purports are &quot;beneficiaries&quot; of the AIDS Walk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If jOHN wants to &#8220;know how much of every dollar raised at AIDS Walks really go to the charities and how much goes to the organization that runs the walk with all the volunteers and products that are given to them?&#8221; he might visit <a href="http://www.thelastwatch.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thelastwatch.com</a>.  </p>
<p>While I haven&#8217;t updated data on that site for some time, there&#8217;s an analysis of the reduction in the amount of money the San Francisco AIDS Foundation shares with other smaller Bay Area AIDS agencies SFAF purports are &#8220;beneficiaries&#8221; of the AIDS Walk.</p>
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		<title>By: Scooter</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/11/6117/comment-page-1#comment-23353</link>
		<dc:creator>Scooter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6117#comment-23353</guid>
		<description>The week prior to the election, I received an impressive mailer from HRC outlining the work that is being done and listing the names of the major donors and Federal Club members.  

Nice, but like much of HRC, it seems like donor money was spent on &quot;preaching to the choir&quot; rather than reaching outside their comfort zone.  Besides, the list was more than 8 months old by the time of the printing.

Can someone please provide me with some coomentary in the activity that HRC did with respect to the Prop 8 fight?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The week prior to the election, I received an impressive mailer from HRC outlining the work that is being done and listing the names of the major donors and Federal Club members.  </p>
<p>Nice, but like much of HRC, it seems like donor money was spent on &#8220;preaching to the choir&#8221; rather than reaching outside their comfort zone.  Besides, the list was more than 8 months old by the time of the printing.</p>
<p>Can someone please provide me with some coomentary in the activity that HRC did with respect to the Prop 8 fight?</p>
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		<title>By: David Ehrenstein</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/11/6117/comment-page-1#comment-23293</link>
		<dc:creator>David Ehrenstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6117#comment-23293</guid>
		<description>HRC IS completely irrelevant -- and has been for years.

OUT OF THE SUITES AND INTO THE STREETS!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HRC IS completely irrelevant &#8212; and has been for years.</p>
<p>OUT OF THE SUITES AND INTO THE STREETS!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul In SF</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/11/6117/comment-page-1#comment-23267</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul In SF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6117#comment-23267</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;
Timothy Kincaid
November 11th, 2008 &#124; LINK

Regardless of what we may feel about HRC’s effectivity, let’s remember that we absolutely MUST have a voice and presence in Washington.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes we must.  When do you suppose we will get around to getting one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8221;<br />
Timothy Kincaid<br />
November 11th, 2008 | LINK</p>
<p>Regardless of what we may feel about HRC’s effectivity, let’s remember that we absolutely MUST have a voice and presence in Washington.</i></p>
<p>Yes we must.  When do you suppose we will get around to getting one?</p>
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