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	<title>Comments on: Mormons Protest the Resignation of Anti-Gay Theater Director</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6205/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6205</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Louie</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6205/comment-page-1#comment-24687</link>
		<dc:creator>Louie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6205#comment-24687</guid>
		<description>Ah yes, it seems that Civics 101 is no longer taught in our American public school system. Either that or a whole lot of people are skipping these classes.

Our country is not and has never been &quot;majority rules&quot;. That may have been fine while fighting amongst friends in the school cafeteria, but this is not how the real, civilized world operates.

Even the CIA World Factbook defines the United States of America as having a &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Constitution-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition&lt;/a&gt;&quot; type of government.

In addition, I looked up every other country listed in the CIA World Factbook and I couldn&#039;t find a single one having a &quot;majority rules&quot; type of democracy.

Perhaps some of us a reading from a different text book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah yes, it seems that Civics 101 is no longer taught in our American public school system. Either that or a whole lot of people are skipping these classes.</p>
<p>Our country is not and has never been &#8220;majority rules&#8221;. That may have been fine while fighting amongst friends in the school cafeteria, but this is not how the real, civilized world operates.</p>
<p>Even the CIA World Factbook defines the United States of America as having a &#8220;<a href="https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html" rel="nofollow">Constitution-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition</a>&#8221; type of government.</p>
<p>In addition, I looked up every other country listed in the CIA World Factbook and I couldn&#8217;t find a single one having a &#8220;majority rules&#8221; type of democracy.</p>
<p>Perhaps some of us a reading from a different text book.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6205/comment-page-1#comment-24673</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 02:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6205#comment-24673</guid>
		<description>Harry,

We do not live in &quot;a democracy&quot;.  We live in a constitutional democratic republic.  We do not have mob rule here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harry,</p>
<p>We do not live in &#8220;a democracy&#8221;.  We live in a constitutional democratic republic.  We do not have mob rule here.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6205/comment-page-1#comment-24671</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 02:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6205#comment-24671</guid>
		<description>Update above</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update above</p>
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		<title>By: Harry</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6205/comment-page-1#comment-24247</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 02:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6205#comment-24247</guid>
		<description>funny thing - in a democracy where majority rules, and the majority most definitely made their position known in the voting booth, the minority cries and moans and seeks to overturn the majority rule...now that is criminal!
Get a grip - if you don&#039;t like it then leave...or shut up.
i am sure canada will welcome you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>funny thing &#8211; in a democracy where majority rules, and the majority most definitely made their position known in the voting booth, the minority cries and moans and seeks to overturn the majority rule&#8230;now that is criminal!<br />
Get a grip &#8211; if you don&#8217;t like it then leave&#8230;or shut up.<br />
i am sure canada will welcome you!</p>
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		<title>By: North Dallas Thirty</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6205/comment-page-1#comment-24152</link>
		<dc:creator>North Dallas Thirty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6205#comment-24152</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I don’t blame the LGBT folks and our supporters who were angry with Eckern, how else are we supposed to feel when someone declares their opposition to our rights and dignity as equal citizens?&lt;/i&gt;

Well, you could react as you have in the past.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001999067_kerrygay07.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Example 1&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2007/02/lets-see-if-we-can-follow-bouncing.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Example 2&lt;/a&gt;.

And &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/01/us/politics/01marriage.html?_r=2&amp;em&amp;oref=slogin&amp;oref=slogin&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; the most recent example&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;i&gt;As a Christian — he is a member of the United Church of Christ — Mr. Obama believes that marriage is a sacred union, a blessing from God, and one that is intended for a man and a woman exclusively, according to these supporters and Obama campaign advisers.&lt;/i&gt;

In that case, you endorse them, you support them, and you send them millions of dollars.

Or does this have something to do with a person being of the &quot;wrong&quot; skin color, political affiliation, and religious belief?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I don’t blame the LGBT folks and our supporters who were angry with Eckern, how else are we supposed to feel when someone declares their opposition to our rights and dignity as equal citizens?</i></p>
<p>Well, you could react as you have in the past.</p>
<p><a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001999067_kerrygay07.html" rel="nofollow"> Example 1</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2007/02/lets-see-if-we-can-follow-bouncing.html" rel="nofollow"> Example 2</a>.</p>
<p>And <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/01/us/politics/01marriage.html?_r=2&amp;em&amp;oref=slogin&amp;oref=slogin" rel="nofollow"> the most recent example</a>:</p>
<p><i>As a Christian — he is a member of the United Church of Christ — Mr. Obama believes that marriage is a sacred union, a blessing from God, and one that is intended for a man and a woman exclusively, according to these supporters and Obama campaign advisers.</i></p>
<p>In that case, you endorse them, you support them, and you send them millions of dollars.</p>
<p>Or does this have something to do with a person being of the &#8220;wrong&#8221; skin color, political affiliation, and religious belief?</p>
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		<title>By: jOHN</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6205/comment-page-1#comment-23922</link>
		<dc:creator>jOHN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6205#comment-23922</guid>
		<description>Mike, do you honestly think that a protest in a downtown area would make the LDS think twice about what they do or who they harm?    

I think that the attention being placed on the LDS will make other groups of people think much more about their actions against another group then a protest at City Hall.  I generally think City Halls does realize that Prop. 8 was an attack on civil liberties and it would be like preaching to the choir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, do you honestly think that a protest in a downtown area would make the LDS think twice about what they do or who they harm?    </p>
<p>I think that the attention being placed on the LDS will make other groups of people think much more about their actions against another group then a protest at City Hall.  I generally think City Halls does realize that Prop. 8 was an attack on civil liberties and it would be like preaching to the choir.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6205/comment-page-1#comment-23907</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6205#comment-23907</guid>
		<description>OK......so what we have here is a minority that feels it was mistreated due to the result of a vote of the general population.  So, rather than protest to the government and the general population, this slighted minority group decides to protest, blacklist, and do harm to another minority group.

Am I the only one that sees the hypocrisy here???  Is the first group not exhibiting the exact same behavior toward the second group that the first group claims was exhibited to them due to the election results?

Wouldn&#039;t it make a lot more sense to organize parades/protests in public downtown areas, making the case to the general population who by majority voted yes on Prop 8?  One minority group that feels that its rights were taken away that in turn attacks another minority group and seeks to take away their rights will not develop compassion for the first group among the general population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK&#8230;&#8230;so what we have here is a minority that feels it was mistreated due to the result of a vote of the general population.  So, rather than protest to the government and the general population, this slighted minority group decides to protest, blacklist, and do harm to another minority group.</p>
<p>Am I the only one that sees the hypocrisy here???  Is the first group not exhibiting the exact same behavior toward the second group that the first group claims was exhibited to them due to the election results?</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it make a lot more sense to organize parades/protests in public downtown areas, making the case to the general population who by majority voted yes on Prop 8?  One minority group that feels that its rights were taken away that in turn attacks another minority group and seeks to take away their rights will not develop compassion for the first group among the general population.</p>
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		<title>By: werdna</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6205/comment-page-1#comment-23739</link>
		<dc:creator>werdna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6205#comment-23739</guid>
		<description>Duncan-First off, Stefano did respond to Dave&#039;s question, he wrote &quot;I’d think they were cracked&quot;. If Dave&#039;s question had been more salient it might&#039;ve generated more replies. To be more relevant the question should&#039;ve been something like this:

&quot;What would you think if CMT had specialized in religious theater and Eckern had made a donation to a campaign which sought to rescind basic rights of religious people which then angered Mormon and other religious writers, actors, and viewers?&quot;

Because that&#039;s the parallel--except that in the case of virtually any other minority besides LGBT folks that kind of campaign would be unthinkable in this day and age. And the answer would be the same as in this case, he&#039;d need to accept the consequences of publicly opposing the rights of people he works with.

I do think it&#039;s sad that someone who was clearly devoted to something positive like CMT has found himself in a position where he felt that it was best to resign. I don&#039;t blame the LGBT folks and our supporters who were angry with Eckern, how else are we supposed to feel when someone declares their opposition to our rights and dignity as equal citizens? I put the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of the people who fostered discrimination and divisiveness by putting Prop 8 on the ballot and, in particular, the LDS leadership which exercised so much coercive pressure on the members of the church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duncan-First off, Stefano did respond to Dave&#8217;s question, he wrote &#8220;I’d think they were cracked&#8221;. If Dave&#8217;s question had been more salient it might&#8217;ve generated more replies. To be more relevant the question should&#8217;ve been something like this:</p>
<p>&#8220;What would you think if CMT had specialized in religious theater and Eckern had made a donation to a campaign which sought to rescind basic rights of religious people which then angered Mormon and other religious writers, actors, and viewers?&#8221;</p>
<p>Because that&#8217;s the parallel&#8211;except that in the case of virtually any other minority besides LGBT folks that kind of campaign would be unthinkable in this day and age. And the answer would be the same as in this case, he&#8217;d need to accept the consequences of publicly opposing the rights of people he works with.</p>
<p>I do think it&#8217;s sad that someone who was clearly devoted to something positive like CMT has found himself in a position where he felt that it was best to resign. I don&#8217;t blame the LGBT folks and our supporters who were angry with Eckern, how else are we supposed to feel when someone declares their opposition to our rights and dignity as equal citizens? I put the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of the people who fostered discrimination and divisiveness by putting Prop 8 on the ballot and, in particular, the LDS leadership which exercised so much coercive pressure on the members of the church.</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6205/comment-page-1#comment-23666</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6205#comment-23666</guid>
		<description>None of you have answered Dave&#039;s question: what would you feel in such a situation?
Also, you should stop justifying atrocities by mentioning previous ones done against you. It just leads to an endless cycle of revenge.
And Mr Hewes, don&#039;t confuse natural and positive law.
I think a far more fitting punishment for Mr Eckern would be to bring him into contact with the people he hurt and let him understand what marriage means to them. As it is, he&#039;ll probably be feeling sorry for himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None of you have answered Dave&#8217;s question: what would you feel in such a situation?<br />
Also, you should stop justifying atrocities by mentioning previous ones done against you. It just leads to an endless cycle of revenge.<br />
And Mr Hewes, don&#8217;t confuse natural and positive law.<br />
I think a far more fitting punishment for Mr Eckern would be to bring him into contact with the people he hurt and let him understand what marriage means to them. As it is, he&#8217;ll probably be feeling sorry for himself.</p>
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		<title>By: cowboy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/12/6205/comment-page-1#comment-23650</link>
		<dc:creator>cowboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=6205#comment-23650</guid>
		<description>I think we have seen two good examples of blind obedience here: the owner of El Coyote and the director of CMT.  Both are Mormons who bought into the logic that supporting Proposition 8 was merely a statement of their belief and it would not change a thing for gays.  

In spite of their Church’s admonition to study the issues they obligingly (probably because of peer pressure in their local Wards) sent money to the &lt;b&gt;Yes Proposition 8&lt;/b&gt;.   

I asked my Sister (a devout Mormon) about this issue and she said that Joseph Smith (fonder of the Mormons) had always said to question even the dictates of the Prophet.  

I know  THE LETTTER read from the pulpits in every Mormon Ward and Stake Center had a major factor in what the Saints should do (especially since it came from the First Presidency) but, still, the members should have studied the issue a little bit more.  

Blind obedience is not good for any church or group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we have seen two good examples of blind obedience here: the owner of El Coyote and the director of CMT.  Both are Mormons who bought into the logic that supporting Proposition 8 was merely a statement of their belief and it would not change a thing for gays.  </p>
<p>In spite of their Church’s admonition to study the issues they obligingly (probably because of peer pressure in their local Wards) sent money to the <b>Yes Proposition 8</b>.   </p>
<p>I asked my Sister (a devout Mormon) about this issue and she said that Joseph Smith (fonder of the Mormons) had always said to question even the dictates of the Prophet.  </p>
<p>I know  THE LETTTER read from the pulpits in every Mormon Ward and Stake Center had a major factor in what the Saints should do (especially since it came from the First Presidency) but, still, the members should have studied the issue a little bit more.  </p>
<p>Blind obedience is not good for any church or group.</p>
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