This is just one more reason why it’s vital that we continue our efforts to increase popular support for same-sex marriage, whatever the judicial fate of Prop 8 turns out to be. It would be terrible if these two justices were removed for their votes in favor of same-sex marriage, and a strong vote to retain them will discourage further efforts to intimidate or punish other justices who issue rulings favorable to LGBT people.

The only Hispanic on the court, Justice Carlos Moreno, supported same sex marriage and will probably support overturning Prop 8. Should the Supreme Court overturn Prop 8 and a recall ensue, it would be pure foolishness on our part not to paint this as an attempt on the part of Utah Mormons to take over the California Court and kick out the one Hispanic voice. Paint it as racism in every Hispanic neighborhood, every Spanish language radio and TV outlet, etc. The Mormons and their recall allies will rue the day they took this path.

In African American communities, pointing out that the Church from Utah wants to replace a Hispanic judge who was fair even to gays, and replace him with a choice more to their liking, certainly doesn’t bode well for cases affecting African Americans that come before the court.

Ultimately we are going to have to learn to play hardball if we ever hope to start winning some of these fights. I think we should already be confronting this recall threat by talking up the issue of Mormons directed from Salt Lake City trying to take over our court system and purge the uppity Hispanic judge they can’t control.

instead of making it difficult to propose “frivolous” issues, does the passage of Prop 8 show a precedent that could lead groups to ban marriage, say, between catholic latinos and evangelical protestant latinos; or denying florists to sell to illegal immigrants; or, to be somewhat silly, forbidding straight people to marry opposite-sex members; or eliminating marriage all together and making it a civil contract between people not matter what the sex?

even the NAACP and other major Civil Rights groups are entering “amicus briefs” to the suits asking the California Supreme Court to determine the status of Prop 8’s passage because they fear the creation of new paradigms being set that would, in effect, redefine not just the California Constitution but the basic premises of civil rights. this is the very thing the promise of protections by the courts is meant to defend against the concept of the “tyranny of the majority”.

i think it possible a very large can of worms may have been opened beyond what the proponents of Prop 8 intended. they worked from purely emotional bases without looking at the legal ramifications. what is stopping them from moving away from marriage to other matters?

personally, i prefer the last “frivolous” scenario i mentioned – the dissolution of ALL marriages replacing them with civil contracts because, when you get right down to it, what is being refused the LGBT community are hundreds of legal preferences given only to “married” people. as a single person, i can’t even have those preferences.

What are we thankful for?

I’m grateful for the loss in California, Arizona and Florida. What better kick-in-the-pants for us. This past election galvanized us. We are not complacent anymore. Our momentum is just starting. (Plus, what better PR could the Harvey Milk movie ask for?)

I know it has been a rough road lately. But we will survive and be better. I know I am. Thanks to people who have typed a lot here, at least I can appreciate how our Republic works and the stuff Mr. Thomas (my 9th Grade civics/history teacher) taught me is finally sinking in.

Your turn.

But if they decide that marriage is not a civil right, basically all marriages, homo and hetero will become invalid. Equality under the law is the key isssue this faces. The courts could say all or none is the only choice they have, and leave it up to the fundies to decided, Do they want marriage, and that is narriage for all. or, noone gets a marriage.

There would be a very bitter irony indeed if the religious right gets their way and ends up invalidating not just same-sex, but opposite-sex marriages as well.

My two cents.

What needs to be done right now is outreach to the various minorities that largely voted for Prop 8 – Blacks, Hispanics, etc. – in order to get them to recognise the threat it poses to them.

Exactly! What prevents the next minority to be targeted by some other group with powerful influence with lots of money, unpaid volunteers and fear tactics?

What needs to be done right now is outreach to the various minorities that largely voted for Prop 8 – Blacks, Hispanics, etc. – in order to get them to recognise the threat it poses to them. If successful the threat of a recall would be lessened, perhaps even eliminated entirely, and that would increase the chances of victory next year – the case is probably going to be heard in March and the decision will be given within 90 days, so there isn’t a huge amount of time to get moving on this.

I recommend that anyone in CA with free time contact one of the civil rights organisations that are opposing Prop 8 to volunteer – even if you don’t work directly on the case itself, you could free up someone else to do so. The details of who is involved is on the PDF links on this page of the California Supreme Court website (the page lists all the documents submitted regarding the Prop 8 cases).