The one irritating meme I constantly hear/read: Mormons are not discriminatory towards gays.

They say there a gay-friendly congregations in the LDS Church.

Not true. There is not even a gay-support group. In fact, the objective is to make gays go back into the closet.

They say gays are welcome in the LDS Church if they just don’t act on their homosexual urges.

I dare anyone to provide the name of ONE out-and-proud, celibate gay Mormon who has a Temple Recommend. Because there is not one who is “out” and certainly not “proud”.

Not yours obviously. The California public school system already teaches kids about same-sex parents and same sex marriage. It was legal after all, in at least one state during the entire fight over Proposition 8. And civil unions were already legal in California, and in other states. So much, so obvious. And as for opting out…every parent in the nation has the ability to opt their kids out of any curricula that offends their religious sensibilities. They’re called private schools. Proposition 8 had utterly no bearing on what would, or would not be taught in the public schools about same-sex marriages and same-sex households, and absolutely no bearing on what private schools would teach kids.

And the bigots pushing proposition 8 knew that. All those TV and radio ads they dumped onto the airwaves obviously weren’t intended to warn people about something that was, in fact, Already happening. You don’t spend that kind of money to tell people, in effect, that if proposition 8 fails the sky will turn blue. They waved the issue on TV as a backhanded way of Save Our Children From The Homosexuals fear mongering.

Those ads weren’t about what kids might be taught about marriage. They weren’t even about what kids would be taught about homosexuality. They were created to get the image of homosexuals preying on children out there. Because they understood that proposition 8 would fall unless they could find a way to reassure enough voters that it was okay to fear and loath peaceful, loving, devoted couples.

Lies? Lies? Proposition 8 had utterly no bearing on what school kids would be taught about same-sex marriage. Proposition 8 had utterly no bearing on what school kids would be taught about same sex parents. Those things were, and continue to be, taught in the public schools in California. You people aren’t stupid, and you aren’t ignorant of the facts here. And I don’t think the proposition 8 team cared one whit if anyone was or was not ignorant of the facts. Eric Hoffer once said that propaganda doesn’t fool anyone, it merely allows them to fool themselves.

They knew there were a lot of people in California who would vote down Proposition 8 unless their flailing arms could grasp at some straw, some cheap justification, however weak, but something, anything, that would allow them to hold on to their cheap knuckle-dragging prejudices toward their gay and lesbian neighbors. The proposition 8 team gave them that straw. That’s what this unmitigated junk about what kids would be taught in the public schools was all about. Nothing more. It was a lie. But a useful one. It did it’s job. No, it’s not something they can be proud of. But then neither are their gutter crawling prejudices. It must be frustrating to have to keep saying over and over in public that proposition 8 wasn’t an attack on gay people, when deep down inside you can’t fathom why anyone in their right mind would think attacking gay people is wrong.

Of course it wasn’t, and they were quite well aware of it.

What they were really saying is the subtext– the gays are gonna get your children. they’re oging ot molest your children. Your children will be exposed to homosexuality. they’re trying to turn your children gay.

That’s ALWAYS the subtext, and always has been. That gays molest children is only really good for the right-wing nutcases. no one else really believes it, and so if they say it, it just makes them look bad.

so the subtle appeal to fear is what they do so that it looks reasonable. but it is just the same old hate, just wearing a cheap tuxedo instead an easily opened raincoat.

Understand?

“Most evangelicals still regard Mormonism as a cult,” Cizik explained. “That will shape, I’d imagine, their reactions to Romney as a candidate for the White House.”

As far as I can tell Cizik is being remarkably frank about Evangelical ideas about the LDS church, but it’s a stretch to suggest that he’s endorsing these ideas himself. To characterize his statement as “shameful anti-religious sputtering[]” seems misguided and deceptive. Our opponents say enough clearly outrageous stuff, we don’t need to quote them selectively and misleadingly to show how wrong they are.

Teaching children there are gays in the world will not make them gay. This is akin to arguing that teaching them about green-eyed people will make them green-eyed. What it might do, however, is make it more difficult for fundamentalist parents (who publicly school their children) to teach them to hate gay people.

What you’re really afraid of, I think, is losing the ability to successfully repress from children the mere knowledge that there are gays out there living their lives with dignity, loving one another, contributing greatly to society and even (if they choose) raising their own children.

My parents sent me to a private Christian academy for the first ten years of my life. I’m gay anyway. I was gay when I was born and I knew I was gay when I was seven years old. What I learned in that private school was to how to hide this understanding of myself from others, so I would be safe from people like you.

If teaching children there are gays in the world will allow those children who are gay the opportunity to grow up unashamed and unafraid then yes, Lying, I’m all for it.

Very funny id, but some of us take honesty seriously. It isn’t right for you to mock it.

There is a huge difference between “teach children about families with gay parents” and “teach gay marriage”.

The answer to your question is that supporters of Prop 8, have been consistently dishonest.

The fact is that Prop 8 has no intrinsic impact on school curriculm, lose or win. Schools in progressive districts can legally teach that same-sex couples exist, can marry in several other countries and a few other states.

I doubt that the opponents of racial equality, who fought so hard to keep black students out of “white” schools, anticipated that their infamy and criminal acts would become curriculm as examples of unjust and reprehensible behavior.

It is likely that one of the long-term results of Prop 8 is that American History classes in public schools will teach the fact that Californians, among others, chose to codify discrimination into their Constitution, depriving millions of people of their equal protection under the Constitution, forcing the religious rules of one group of people onto people with very different religious beliefs, violating their freedom of religion in the process. And those history classes may well cover the fact that homophobes were not content to deprive GLBTQ people of the right to marry, but also complained bitterly and deceitfully when GLBTQ people exercised their right to assemble, their right to free speech, their right to control their assets, and last but not least, their right to seek justice from the courts.

And should any of the worst-case scenarios projected for Prop 8 come to pass, the lesson that Prop 8 supporters will have written into history books will be utterly ugly and shameful.

You are saying all gays are burning BofMs all over the place?

Can you give me the address of the congregation (not a Ward?) of non-practicing gay Mormons?

The Prop 8 proponents were lying in CA by using Massachusetts law as the standard for their argument for Prop 8 “protecting” children from learning about gay marriage.

To learn more, see:
California’s Parental Opt-Out Statutes

The same groups now charging it’s a lie (public schools will teach about gay marriage whether parents like it or not) — were just in court in Massachusetts filing amicus briefs arguing parents don’t have any right to opt their children out of the pro-gay marriage curriculum.

From the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Amicus Curiae Brief:
“In the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, where the right of same-sex couples to marry is protected under the state constitution, it is particularly important to teach children about families with gay parents.” [p 5]

From the Human Rights Campaign Amicus Curiae Brief:
“There is no constitutional principle grounded in either the First Amendment’s free exercise clause or the right to direct the upbringing of one’s children, which requires defendants to either remove the books now in issue – or to treat them as suspect by imposing an opt-out system.” [pp1-2]

From the ACLU Amicus Curiae Brief:
“Specifically, the parents in this case do not have a constitutional right to override the professional pedagogical judgment of the school with respect to the inclusion within the curriculum of the age-appropriate children’s book…King and King.” [p 9]

Which side is really telling the truth here about its aims?

So far, no gay-rights activist has had the fortitude to burn a Qur’an on the doorstep of a militant mosque where imams advocate the stoning of homosexuals (even celibate ones).

Oh, I forgot, criticizing Moslems is off-limits for the Politically Correct. The Moslem imams might issue a “fatwa” on all homosexuals.