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	<title>Comments on: Capital Crime: Appearing Gay</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/12/7325/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/12/7325</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: JJQR</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/12/7325/comment-page-1#comment-28135</link>
		<dc:creator>JJQR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 08:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7325#comment-28135</guid>
		<description>I was cerainly not blaming all young black men for this assault. I always blame the individuals. But as to ascribing blame as to what sometimes inspires these assaults, in this case, I&#039;ll still place my bets on gangsta rap culture over Palin/McCain/Huckabee. People have to recognize and admit that there is also violent homophobia (and racism) that aren&#039;t from sources that are Republican, religious, conservative, or Caucasian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was cerainly not blaming all young black men for this assault. I always blame the individuals. But as to ascribing blame as to what sometimes inspires these assaults, in this case, I&#8217;ll still place my bets on gangsta rap culture over Palin/McCain/Huckabee. People have to recognize and admit that there is also violent homophobia (and racism) that aren&#8217;t from sources that are Republican, religious, conservative, or Caucasian.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/12/7325/comment-page-1#comment-28132</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 07:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7325#comment-28132</guid>
		<description>John,

Again with the slander? Reread my comment.


&lt;i&gt;&quot;Sleep well, Dave. Sleep well.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I usually do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>Again with the slander? Reread my comment.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Sleep well, Dave. Sleep well.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I usually do.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/12/7325/comment-page-1#comment-27969</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 06:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7325#comment-27969</guid>
		<description>Gay baiting with anti-same sex marriage campaigns.  Race baiting with anti-immigrantt campaigns. Folks getting murdered because they are percieved as being gay and happen to be Hispanic. Nah, I am sure they aren&#039;t related. 

Sleep well, Dave.  Sleep well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gay baiting with anti-same sex marriage campaigns.  Race baiting with anti-immigrantt campaigns. Folks getting murdered because they are percieved as being gay and happen to be Hispanic. Nah, I am sure they aren&#8217;t related. </p>
<p>Sleep well, Dave.  Sleep well.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/12/7325/comment-page-1#comment-27952</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7325#comment-27952</guid>
		<description>John,

I don&#039;t see why I should care about what you consider the demise of the California Republican Party or the reasons you give for it. I responded to your comment about the GOP presidential primaries, which involve the entire country.

&lt;blockquote&gt;If you haven’t figured out that the primary concern among the right wing anti-immigrant advocates is Hispanic immigrants, you are just ignoring the obvious. They don’t hide it, so I am not sure why you are trying to do so.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The largest source of illegal aliens in the U.S. is the border with Mexico. It is natural therefore that people worried about illegal immigration should be more than a little annoyed with Mexico. But it does not follow that such people are motivated by anti-Mexican sentiment. 

That some of these people are anti-Mexican are anti-Latino doesn&#039;t mean that they all are. Remember, it is bigotry to generalize like this.

If the source of most U.S. illegal aliens was China, the left would say that opposition to illegal immigration was motivated by anti-Chinese prejudice. If most illegal aliens were from India, they&#039;d say that bias against Indians was causing the illegal immigration concerns. And on and on and on with every place on earth (or at least the non-European places). This is a glaring non-sequiter.

&lt;blockquote&gt;You can pretend as much as you want that the anti-immigrant bashing is anti-Hispanic racism, but Hispanic AMERICAN VOTERS clearly see it for what it is and have voted accordingly.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And you, John, can pretend that all Americans who disagree with you on illegal immigraton are racists. Those who care about the territorial sovereignty of the United States, however, see your slander for what it is. And they too vote accordingly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see why I should care about what you consider the demise of the California Republican Party or the reasons you give for it. I responded to your comment about the GOP presidential primaries, which involve the entire country.</p>
<blockquote><p>If you haven’t figured out that the primary concern among the right wing anti-immigrant advocates is Hispanic immigrants, you are just ignoring the obvious. They don’t hide it, so I am not sure why you are trying to do so.</p></blockquote>
<p>The largest source of illegal aliens in the U.S. is the border with Mexico. It is natural therefore that people worried about illegal immigration should be more than a little annoyed with Mexico. But it does not follow that such people are motivated by anti-Mexican sentiment. </p>
<p>That some of these people are anti-Mexican are anti-Latino doesn&#8217;t mean that they all are. Remember, it is bigotry to generalize like this.</p>
<p>If the source of most U.S. illegal aliens was China, the left would say that opposition to illegal immigration was motivated by anti-Chinese prejudice. If most illegal aliens were from India, they&#8217;d say that bias against Indians was causing the illegal immigration concerns. And on and on and on with every place on earth (or at least the non-European places). This is a glaring non-sequiter.</p>
<blockquote><p>You can pretend as much as you want that the anti-immigrant bashing is anti-Hispanic racism, but Hispanic AMERICAN VOTERS clearly see it for what it is and have voted accordingly.</p></blockquote>
<p>And you, John, can pretend that all Americans who disagree with you on illegal immigraton are racists. Those who care about the territorial sovereignty of the United States, however, see your slander for what it is. And they too vote accordingly.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/12/7325/comment-page-1#comment-27906</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 21:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7325#comment-27906</guid>
		<description>Dave,

If you haven&#039;t figured out that the primary concern among the right wing anti-immigrant advocates is Hispanic immigrants, you are just ignoring the obvious.  They don&#039;t hide it, so I am not sure why you are trying to do so.

If you lived in California, you would know the history of the demise of the Republican Party in our state.  Republican Pete Wilson used immigrant bashing to squeak out a victory or two.  As a result, Hispanics in CA now view the Republican Party as anti-Hispanic racists.  Other than Schwartzennegger (who really is more of a celebrity candidate, rather than a Republican), Republicans are screwed in CA and may remain a minority party for another generation.

You can pretend as much as you want that the anti-immigrant bashing is anti-Hispanic racism, but Hispanic AMERICAN VOTERS clearly see it for what it is and have voted accordingly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<p>If you haven&#8217;t figured out that the primary concern among the right wing anti-immigrant advocates is Hispanic immigrants, you are just ignoring the obvious.  They don&#8217;t hide it, so I am not sure why you are trying to do so.</p>
<p>If you lived in California, you would know the history of the demise of the Republican Party in our state.  Republican Pete Wilson used immigrant bashing to squeak out a victory or two.  As a result, Hispanics in CA now view the Republican Party as anti-Hispanic racists.  Other than Schwartzennegger (who really is more of a celebrity candidate, rather than a Republican), Republicans are screwed in CA and may remain a minority party for another generation.</p>
<p>You can pretend as much as you want that the anti-immigrant bashing is anti-Hispanic racism, but Hispanic AMERICAN VOTERS clearly see it for what it is and have voted accordingly.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/12/7325/comment-page-1#comment-27892</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7325#comment-27892</guid>
		<description>&quot;Those attackers probably never heard of Huckabee. Blame violent gangsta rap for this case.&quot;

I prefer to blame the individuals for their own actions, not artists who may or may not be fanning flames or simply acting as the mouthpiece for what their fans ALREADY think and feel.

And yes swampfox, these are homophobes.  Hate is a strong emotion, it does not come from a neutral or confident place.  It comes from fear.  They may not be intimidated by gays, but they certainly fear them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Those attackers probably never heard of Huckabee. Blame violent gangsta rap for this case.&#8221;</p>
<p>I prefer to blame the individuals for their own actions, not artists who may or may not be fanning flames or simply acting as the mouthpiece for what their fans ALREADY think and feel.</p>
<p>And yes swampfox, these are homophobes.  Hate is a strong emotion, it does not come from a neutral or confident place.  It comes from fear.  They may not be intimidated by gays, but they certainly fear them.</p>
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		<title>By: José Sucuzhañay dead after Brooklyn hate crime attack &#171; Unfinished Lives</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/12/7325/comment-page-1#comment-27860</link>
		<dc:creator>José Sucuzhañay dead after Brooklyn hate crime attack &#171; Unfinished Lives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 08:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7325#comment-27860</guid>
		<description>[...] Box Turtle Bulletin: “Capital Crime: Appearing Gay” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Box Turtle Bulletin: “Capital Crime: Appearing Gay” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/12/7325/comment-page-1#comment-27824</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7325#comment-27824</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Complicating the picture in this case is the unbelievably racist (anti-Hispanic) tone of the Republican primary campaign up to the selection of Sen McCain.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

What unbelievably racist tone? Wanting to gain control of our border with Mexico is hardly evidence of racism.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Wealthy well educated whites aren’t terribly threatened by Hispanic immigrants taking their jobs. However, less skilled white and black workers feel more vulnerable.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Hispanic immigrants aren&#039;t the concern. What worries people is &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;illegal&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; immigrants taking jobs and lowering wages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Complicating the picture in this case is the unbelievably racist (anti-Hispanic) tone of the Republican primary campaign up to the selection of Sen McCain.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>What unbelievably racist tone? Wanting to gain control of our border with Mexico is hardly evidence of racism.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Wealthy well educated whites aren’t terribly threatened by Hispanic immigrants taking their jobs. However, less skilled white and black workers feel more vulnerable.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Hispanic immigrants aren&#8217;t the concern. What worries people is <b><i>illegal</i></b> immigrants taking jobs and lowering wages.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/12/7325/comment-page-1#comment-27782</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7325#comment-27782</guid>
		<description>I think another important thing to remember is that nobody in either party was white. We also have no idea the socio-economic status of any of the men. Or do we? I am not privy to this info. People who are college-educated are much less likely to be homophobic. In addition, ideas of masculinity in the black and hispanic communities are much harsher than whites. This is why the &quot;down low&quot; culture is so pervasive in those groups. Now, the victims came from a country where physical affection is normal between brothers. But here in America it&#039;s not. It looks like a cultural clash all ways around - not just a homophobic one. Which makes it all the more shameful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think another important thing to remember is that nobody in either party was white. We also have no idea the socio-economic status of any of the men. Or do we? I am not privy to this info. People who are college-educated are much less likely to be homophobic. In addition, ideas of masculinity in the black and hispanic communities are much harsher than whites. This is why the &#8220;down low&#8221; culture is so pervasive in those groups. Now, the victims came from a country where physical affection is normal between brothers. But here in America it&#8217;s not. It looks like a cultural clash all ways around &#8211; not just a homophobic one. Which makes it all the more shameful.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/12/7325/comment-page-1#comment-27768</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 02:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7325#comment-27768</guid>
		<description>JJQR wrote: &quot;Those attackers probably never heard of Huckabee. Blame violent gangsta rap for this case.&quot;

So, are we to assume by this comment that you are referring to all young people as not being politically informed, or is this more directed toward young black men?  Or is it the subset of young men who commit vicious hate crimes (regardless of their race)?  

I doubt that not all young thugs in our society listen to gansta rap.  We also saw unprecedented interest in the 2008 Presidential election by young people of all races.

I don&#039;t have a problem with feeling strongly that violent criminals deserve to be punished for their crimes, but I am not comfortable with punishing an entire class of people (young black men) for crimes they didn&#039;t commit.  After all, with support, hard work and opportunity, a young black man might just grow up and become President some day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJQR wrote: &#8220;Those attackers probably never heard of Huckabee. Blame violent gangsta rap for this case.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, are we to assume by this comment that you are referring to all young people as not being politically informed, or is this more directed toward young black men?  Or is it the subset of young men who commit vicious hate crimes (regardless of their race)?  </p>
<p>I doubt that not all young thugs in our society listen to gansta rap.  We also saw unprecedented interest in the 2008 Presidential election by young people of all races.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a problem with feeling strongly that violent criminals deserve to be punished for their crimes, but I am not comfortable with punishing an entire class of people (young black men) for crimes they didn&#8217;t commit.  After all, with support, hard work and opportunity, a young black man might just grow up and become President some day.</p>
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