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	<title>Comments on: DADT Foregone to be Long Gone</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/15/7372</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/15/7372/comment-page-1#comment-27914</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7372#comment-27914</guid>
		<description>Bob:  Thank you for your service.  My father and you could undoubtedly trade some hair-raising stories as former grunts in Vietnam.  I served in the Navy myself many years later.  In reading your comments I was reminded a bit of the old saying that no matter much things change they always remain the same.  I too was deep in the closet during my service, afraid that family or friends would find out I was gay and of course hoping that my own &quot;gay-ness&quot; would go away.  Obviously that didn&#039;t happen.  Wanna know the killer irony of this?  When I did finally come out much later, family and friends were fine with it.  All that angst for nothing.  Arrrgh! But thank God nonetheless...

I hope it&#039;s easier for the next generation so they can avoid going through all that crap.  Ahhhhh...good times.  /sarc

Anyway, thanks for your comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob:  Thank you for your service.  My father and you could undoubtedly trade some hair-raising stories as former grunts in Vietnam.  I served in the Navy myself many years later.  In reading your comments I was reminded a bit of the old saying that no matter much things change they always remain the same.  I too was deep in the closet during my service, afraid that family or friends would find out I was gay and of course hoping that my own &#8220;gay-ness&#8221; would go away.  Obviously that didn&#8217;t happen.  Wanna know the killer irony of this?  When I did finally come out much later, family and friends were fine with it.  All that angst for nothing.  Arrrgh! But thank God nonetheless&#8230;</p>
<p>I hope it&#8217;s easier for the next generation so they can avoid going through all that crap.  Ahhhhh&#8230;good times.  /sarc</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks for your comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Leahy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/15/7372/comment-page-1#comment-27881</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Leahy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7372#comment-27881</guid>
		<description>I was an Infantry pointman in Vietnam.  I was the first person to walk down the jungle path to find the mines, boobytraps, snipers, machine guns and ambushes.  I&#039;ve had napalm splash on me and was wounded six times with schrapnel.  I also assaulted three enemy machine gun positions.

I&#039;m also gay.

I&#039;ve been a professional writer for the past 25 years.  I&#039;ve been writing about the experience of being a gay in the Army in Vietnam.  Below is the section I wrote about gays in the military.

========

It’s interesting that I never realized that there was a fourth choice.  If I had told the Army that I was gay, they would have kicked me out as being obviously unsuitable for Army life.  That would have solved both my pain problem and my dislike of the Army.

I’m sure I never considered that option because at the ripe old age of 20, I was terrified that anyone - the Army or my parents - would discover I was gay.  I hoped my gay-ness would go away if I ignored it - and then I’d be “normal.”  (I know it was a dumb idea.  Give me a break - I was 20!)

With my luck, the Army would have required me to serve my entire tour as an Infantry point man in Vietnam - and then kicked me out with a dishonorable discharge.

I now find the military’s anti-gay policy amusing.  The current policy is that the military will discharge all the gays it discovers because “homosexuality is incompatible with military service.”  That’s a statement - not a reason.  

Until 1954, the armed forces used almost those same words to explain why it only allowed blacks to be servants and laborers in the military.  Anyone who has served in the military in the past half-century knows that black sergeants form the backbone of today’s military.

I’ve heard that the military really is standing up for enlisted men, who don’t want to be around gays.  It’s odd that those same enlisted men don’t have any problems being around gays in civilian life.  In any case, I’m touched by the military’s concern for the enlisted men’s feelings.  I don’t recall anyone in the Army giving a damn about my feelings, but perhaps things have changed.

A British sergeant came up with an absolutely wonderful comment on the issue of gays in the military; “Men don’t like to take showers with men who like to take showers with men.”  I don’t agree with the sentiment, but I do admire his eloquence.  (I am suspicious, though.  Anyone that eloquent can’t be straight!)

Anyone who believes that “homosexuality is incompatible with military service” has never read about gays in the military in the classical world.  Alexander the Great - a Greek military genius by anyone’s definition - was gay.  Then there was the Sacred Band of the city/state of Thebes.

The Sacred Band was an elite force of 150 picked soldiers within the Theban army.  The Band existed in the fourth century B.C.  Originally, only gay couples were allowed to join this force.  The idea was that in combat, men fought better when they fought next to their lovers.  They would fight harder to protect and impress their lovers.  Men might abandon their comrades, but they never would abandon their lovers.  (It’s interesting that the same logic doesn’t seem to apply to husbands and wives.)

It was a very successful idea.  The Sacred Band was in existence for 40 years.  During that time period Thebes rose to be a military and political powerhouse.  In 375 B.C., the Sacred Band defeated a Spartan army three times its size.

The Sacred Band finally was defeated by Philip II of Macedon, and his gay son Alexander - who later became known as “Alexander the Great.”  (Alexander was given this title because of his outstanding military performance.)  When overwhelmed, the straight portion of the Theban army and the Theban allies broke and ran.  Although surrounded and defeated, the Sacred Band held their ground and refused to surrender.  They were slaughtered by volleys of arrow fire.  According to classical accounts, they found 150 bodies when the dust settled.  No one in the Sacred Band ran.  Everyone died.  That’s impressive!  There’s a very strong urge to run when people are trying to kill you.  Remember that the Sacred Band was only a small portion of the Theban army.  The straight portion of the Theban army ran.

I can’t resist emphasizing why Thebes created the Sacred Band.  Clearly, Thebes was concerned because the non-gay men in the army were running away in battle.  The solution was to set up an elite gays-only army group that could be trusted not to run.  Obviously, experience had taught Thebes that gay couples would stand and fight in battles where straights would run.  More importantly, the solution of setting up an elite gays-only unit worked.  (Maybe if they’d had more gays...)

Until 1981, the U.S. armed forces policy was to discharge all gays they discovered.  The armed forces could retain members who were suspected of gay activity - if those members claimed that they had only engaged in gay activity once.  The enlisted men dubbed this the “Queen For A Day” rule.  

When I started writing this in early-December 2007, a retired brigadier general publicly admitted (confessed?) that he was gay.  Whatever his failings (he also confessed to being a Democrat), I don’t see how anyone can argue that a brigadier general - someone who spent about 20 years successfully climbing the military career ladder - is “incompatible with military service.” 

Senator Barry Goldwater summed up my thoughts nicely with the comment, “You don’t have to be straight to shoot straight.”  (As a teenager, I though Barry Goldwater was a hopeless political Neanderthal.  I’ve since come to admire him and to adopt his political beliefs.)

In combat, survival is far more important than irrelevant questions about whether some-one is gay or straight.  I was a good point man, a good squad leader, a good fighter, and a good killer.  I probably could have worn a pink dress and my men would have followed me.  But because that was a bit too flamboyant for me, I settled for wearing a fluorescent-orange T-shirt.  

(I&#039;d include a picture of my in my fluorescent-orange T-shirt, but this comment area doesn&#039;t allow pictures.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was an Infantry pointman in Vietnam.  I was the first person to walk down the jungle path to find the mines, boobytraps, snipers, machine guns and ambushes.  I&#8217;ve had napalm splash on me and was wounded six times with schrapnel.  I also assaulted three enemy machine gun positions.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also gay.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been a professional writer for the past 25 years.  I&#8217;ve been writing about the experience of being a gay in the Army in Vietnam.  Below is the section I wrote about gays in the military.</p>
<p>========</p>
<p>It’s interesting that I never realized that there was a fourth choice.  If I had told the Army that I was gay, they would have kicked me out as being obviously unsuitable for Army life.  That would have solved both my pain problem and my dislike of the Army.</p>
<p>I’m sure I never considered that option because at the ripe old age of 20, I was terrified that anyone &#8211; the Army or my parents &#8211; would discover I was gay.  I hoped my gay-ness would go away if I ignored it &#8211; and then I’d be “normal.”  (I know it was a dumb idea.  Give me a break &#8211; I was 20!)</p>
<p>With my luck, the Army would have required me to serve my entire tour as an Infantry point man in Vietnam &#8211; and then kicked me out with a dishonorable discharge.</p>
<p>I now find the military’s anti-gay policy amusing.  The current policy is that the military will discharge all the gays it discovers because “homosexuality is incompatible with military service.”  That’s a statement &#8211; not a reason.  </p>
<p>Until 1954, the armed forces used almost those same words to explain why it only allowed blacks to be servants and laborers in the military.  Anyone who has served in the military in the past half-century knows that black sergeants form the backbone of today’s military.</p>
<p>I’ve heard that the military really is standing up for enlisted men, who don’t want to be around gays.  It’s odd that those same enlisted men don’t have any problems being around gays in civilian life.  In any case, I’m touched by the military’s concern for the enlisted men’s feelings.  I don’t recall anyone in the Army giving a damn about my feelings, but perhaps things have changed.</p>
<p>A British sergeant came up with an absolutely wonderful comment on the issue of gays in the military; “Men don’t like to take showers with men who like to take showers with men.”  I don’t agree with the sentiment, but I do admire his eloquence.  (I am suspicious, though.  Anyone that eloquent can’t be straight!)</p>
<p>Anyone who believes that “homosexuality is incompatible with military service” has never read about gays in the military in the classical world.  Alexander the Great &#8211; a Greek military genius by anyone’s definition &#8211; was gay.  Then there was the Sacred Band of the city/state of Thebes.</p>
<p>The Sacred Band was an elite force of 150 picked soldiers within the Theban army.  The Band existed in the fourth century B.C.  Originally, only gay couples were allowed to join this force.  The idea was that in combat, men fought better when they fought next to their lovers.  They would fight harder to protect and impress their lovers.  Men might abandon their comrades, but they never would abandon their lovers.  (It’s interesting that the same logic doesn’t seem to apply to husbands and wives.)</p>
<p>It was a very successful idea.  The Sacred Band was in existence for 40 years.  During that time period Thebes rose to be a military and political powerhouse.  In 375 B.C., the Sacred Band defeated a Spartan army three times its size.</p>
<p>The Sacred Band finally was defeated by Philip II of Macedon, and his gay son Alexander &#8211; who later became known as “Alexander the Great.”  (Alexander was given this title because of his outstanding military performance.)  When overwhelmed, the straight portion of the Theban army and the Theban allies broke and ran.  Although surrounded and defeated, the Sacred Band held their ground and refused to surrender.  They were slaughtered by volleys of arrow fire.  According to classical accounts, they found 150 bodies when the dust settled.  No one in the Sacred Band ran.  Everyone died.  That’s impressive!  There’s a very strong urge to run when people are trying to kill you.  Remember that the Sacred Band was only a small portion of the Theban army.  The straight portion of the Theban army ran.</p>
<p>I can’t resist emphasizing why Thebes created the Sacred Band.  Clearly, Thebes was concerned because the non-gay men in the army were running away in battle.  The solution was to set up an elite gays-only army group that could be trusted not to run.  Obviously, experience had taught Thebes that gay couples would stand and fight in battles where straights would run.  More importantly, the solution of setting up an elite gays-only unit worked.  (Maybe if they’d had more gays&#8230;)</p>
<p>Until 1981, the U.S. armed forces policy was to discharge all gays they discovered.  The armed forces could retain members who were suspected of gay activity &#8211; if those members claimed that they had only engaged in gay activity once.  The enlisted men dubbed this the “Queen For A Day” rule.  </p>
<p>When I started writing this in early-December 2007, a retired brigadier general publicly admitted (confessed?) that he was gay.  Whatever his failings (he also confessed to being a Democrat), I don’t see how anyone can argue that a brigadier general &#8211; someone who spent about 20 years successfully climbing the military career ladder &#8211; is “incompatible with military service.” </p>
<p>Senator Barry Goldwater summed up my thoughts nicely with the comment, “You don’t have to be straight to shoot straight.”  (As a teenager, I though Barry Goldwater was a hopeless political Neanderthal.  I’ve since come to admire him and to adopt his political beliefs.)</p>
<p>In combat, survival is far more important than irrelevant questions about whether some-one is gay or straight.  I was a good point man, a good squad leader, a good fighter, and a good killer.  I probably could have worn a pink dress and my men would have followed me.  But because that was a bit too flamboyant for me, I settled for wearing a fluorescent-orange T-shirt.  </p>
<p>(I&#8217;d include a picture of my in my fluorescent-orange T-shirt, but this comment area doesn&#8217;t allow pictures.)</p>
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