Comments on: Rick Warren Congratulates Himself On His “Model of Civility” http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/18/7512 News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric Sun, 12 Feb 2012 04:03:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Timothy Kincaid http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/18/7512/comment-page-1#comment-32051 Timothy Kincaid Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:08:54 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7512#comment-32051 Joshua, You seem rather ignorant of the width of belief in the Christian belief system. Did you know, for example, that both the Northern and Southern California conventions of the United Methodist Church officially opposed Proposition 8? Or that the United Church of Christ viewed fighting Proposition 8 as part of their quest for Christian social justice? Or that an amicus brief requesting that the courts overturn Proposition 8 has been filed by hundreds of California ministers from Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopal, American Catholic, Disciples of Christ, United Church of Christ, and Methodist churches. You may not like these churches or these men of God, but you cannot say that they are not Christian. So I don't accept "it's part of the Christian belief system" as justification for his maligning and lying about his neighbor. Joshua,

You seem rather ignorant of the width of belief in the Christian belief system.

Did you know, for example, that both the Northern and Southern California conventions of the United Methodist Church officially opposed Proposition 8? Or that the United Church of Christ viewed fighting Proposition 8 as part of their quest for Christian social justice?

Or that an amicus brief requesting that the courts overturn Proposition 8 has been filed by hundreds of California ministers from Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopal, American Catholic, Disciples of Christ, United Church of Christ, and Methodist churches. You may not like these churches or these men of God, but you cannot say that they are not Christian.

So I don’t accept “it’s part of the Christian belief system” as justification for his maligning and lying about his neighbor.

]]> By: Jim Burroway http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/18/7512/comment-page-1#comment-32048 Jim Burroway Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:53:36 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7512#comment-32048 Joshua, It would be unfair to classify Timothy McVeigh's position as outrageous and uncivil either then, if that's the standard that you want to purue. McVeigh, after all, firmly grounded his beliefs in his interpretation not only of the Bible, but of the constitution. If all that's required is consistency with one's belief system, then all manner of uncivil activity -- and criminal activity -- would get a pass. And evoking NAMBLA -- nice tough. Nobody has even thought to mention that group in this context. The very fact that you seem to think that NAMBLA is a part of a community which has repeatedly denounced and reputiated it says an awful lot about your own defective belief system. Joshua,

It would be unfair to classify Timothy McVeigh’s position as outrageous and uncivil either then, if that’s the standard that you want to purue. McVeigh, after all, firmly grounded his beliefs in his interpretation not only of the Bible, but of the constitution.

If all that’s required is consistency with one’s belief system, then all manner of uncivil activity — and criminal activity — would get a pass.

And evoking NAMBLA — nice tough. Nobody has even thought to mention that group in this context. The very fact that you seem to think that NAMBLA is a part of a community which has repeatedly denounced and reputiated it says an awful lot about your own defective belief system.

]]> By: Joshua Mast http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/18/7512/comment-page-1#comment-32046 Joshua Mast Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:46:04 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7512#comment-32046 It seems unfair to classify Rick Warren's support of proposition 8 as uncivil and outrageous. He is an evangelical Christian Pastor. The Bible clearly teaches that homosexuality is not an acceptable expression of sexuality (Lev. 18, Rom 1:24-28, 1 Cor. 6:9-10, 1 Tim 1:8-11, etc.), and it is this same source (not Warren) which places homosexuality on par with incest (Lev. 18), but not polygamy, and the "child rape" comment is clearly a reference to NAMBLA - not all homosexuals. Thus, Warren is not being "uncivil" he is merely being consistent with what he believes. You can argue the validity of God or the Bible, but don't inacurately classify his behaviour as outrageous when he is merely being consistent with the Christian belief system. It seems unfair to classify Rick Warren’s support of proposition 8 as uncivil and outrageous. He is an evangelical Christian Pastor. The Bible clearly teaches that homosexuality is not an acceptable expression of sexuality (Lev. 18, Rom 1:24-28, 1 Cor. 6:9-10, 1 Tim 1:8-11, etc.), and it is this same source (not Warren) which places homosexuality on par with incest (Lev. 18), but not polygamy, and the “child rape” comment is clearly a reference to NAMBLA – not all homosexuals. Thus, Warren is not being “uncivil” he is merely being consistent with what he believes.
You can argue the validity of God or the Bible, but don’t inacurately classify his behaviour as outrageous when he is merely being consistent with the Christian belief system.

]]> By: Lynn David http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/18/7512/comment-page-1#comment-28465 Lynn David Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:54:45 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7512#comment-28465 An interesting article about when representatives of Soulforce attempted to talk with Rick Warren: That Weird Hug from Rick Warren <a href="http://www.bilerico.com/2008/12/that_weird_hug_from_rick_warren.php" rel="nofollow">www.bilerico.com /2008/ 12/ that_weird_hug_from_rick_warren.php</a> Filed by: Jeff Lutes is the Executive Director of Soulforce December 19, 2008 10:00 AM And a snippet from the policy of Saddleback Church on gay people in the church, you're welcome to come, but you have to renounce your 'gay sins' to be a member of the church: SADDLEBACK CHURCH ON HOMOSEXUALITY <a href="http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/membership/group_finder/faqs_smallgroup.asp?id=7509" rel="nofollow">www.saddlebackfamily.com /membership/ group_finder/ faqs_smallgroup.asp?id=7509</a> What does the Bible say about homosexuality? The Bible very clearly says that homosexuality is a sin. Because membership in a church is an outgrowth of accepting the Lordship and leadership of Jesus in one’s life, someone unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted at a member at Saddleback Church. That does not mean they cannot attend church – we hope they do! God’s Word has the power to change our lives. An interesting article about when representatives of Soulforce attempted to talk with Rick Warren:

That Weird Hug from Rick Warren
http://www.bilerico.com /2008/ 12/ that_weird_hug_from_rick_warren.php

Filed by: Jeff Lutes is the Executive Director of Soulforce
December 19, 2008 10:00 AM

And a snippet from the policy of Saddleback Church on gay people in the church, you’re welcome to come, but you have to renounce your ‘gay sins’ to be a member of the church:

SADDLEBACK CHURCH ON HOMOSEXUALITY
http://www.saddlebackfamily.com /membership/ group_finder/ faqs_smallgroup.asp?id=7509

What does the Bible say about homosexuality? The Bible very clearly says that homosexuality is a sin.

Because membership in a church is an outgrowth of accepting the Lordship and leadership of Jesus in one’s life, someone unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted at a member at Saddleback Church. That does not mean they cannot attend church – we hope they do! God’s Word has the power to change our lives.

]]> By: knobandtube http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/18/7512/comment-page-1#comment-28423 knobandtube Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:19:35 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7512#comment-28423 And he thinks political assassination is our moral duty. http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/12/rick-warren-bac.html And he thinks political assassination is our moral duty.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/12/rick-warren-bac.html

]]> By: Dennis Veite http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/18/7512/comment-page-1#comment-28422 Dennis Veite Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:15:09 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7512#comment-28422 @Bob Leahy: Everytime a new publisher prints another book. Better get caught up cause there's a lot of new out there. @Bob Leahy: Everytime a new publisher prints another book. Better get caught up cause there’s a lot of new out there.

]]> By: Bob Leahy http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/18/7512/comment-page-1#comment-28418 Bob Leahy Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:08:46 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7512#comment-28418 Perhaps Warren should consider converting to a more loving religion - like Christianity. The last time I read the New Testament, Christ urged his followers to love their enemies. Christ never said a word against gays. I haven't read the New Testament since 1973. Has there been a revision since then? Perhaps Warren should consider converting to a more loving religion – like Christianity. The last time I read the New Testament, Christ urged his followers to love their enemies.

Christ never said a word against gays.

I haven’t read the New Testament since 1973. Has there been a revision since then?

]]> By: Charles Lanigan http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/18/7512/comment-page-1#comment-28358 Charles Lanigan Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:12:25 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7512#comment-28358 Rest Stops! Rest Stops!

]]> By: Alex http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/18/7512/comment-page-1#comment-28345 Alex Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:15:19 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7512#comment-28345 Ok, does Warren honestly expect us to believe that he has "hundreds" of gay friends? I have maybe a dozen gay friends at the most, and I'm an openly gay man who lives in a liberal city, not a conservative celebrity-pastor with a wife and kids! How does he find the time to meet all these gay people?! :-P Ok, does Warren honestly expect us to believe that he has “hundreds” of gay friends? I have maybe a dozen gay friends at the most, and I’m an openly gay man who lives in a liberal city, not a conservative celebrity-pastor with a wife and kids! How does he find the time to meet all these gay people?! :-P

]]> By: elaygee http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/18/7512/comment-page-1#comment-28341 elaygee Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:53:31 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7512#comment-28341 He has no Gay friends. He has Gay aquaintances who won't tell him how bigoted he is. He has no Gay friends. He has Gay aquaintances who won’t tell him how bigoted he is.

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