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	<title>Comments on: Yes on 8 Campaign: Liars</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/22/7581</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Pants on Fire &#124;</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/22/7581/comment-page-1#comment-114920</link>
		<dc:creator>Pants on Fire &#124;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2012 02:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7581#comment-114920</guid>
		<description>[...] single thing about that ad is true. But wait, it gets better. Apparently, the Prop 8 folks are now arguing that they didn&#8217;t really lie, because they didn&#8217;t challenge any individual marriages in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] single thing about that ad is true. But wait, it gets better. Apparently, the Prop 8 folks are now arguing that they didn&#8217;t really lie, because they didn&#8217;t challenge any individual marriages in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: grantdale</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/22/7581/comment-page-1#comment-28888</link>
		<dc:creator>grantdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7581#comment-28888</guid>
		<description>Ken R: &lt;i&gt;I wonder if the Roman Catholic Church is part of that World Congress of Families?&lt;/i&gt;

Yes. More the point, it&#039;s also Opus Dei etc up to its eyeballs. Even a cursory glance through their site reveals constant high level representation, dating back to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.worldcongress.org/WCF1/wcf1_home.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;it&#039;s founding&lt;/a&gt;.

The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.worldcongress.org/WCF/wcf_principles.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;focus et al&lt;/a&gt; is completely compatible with official RC viewpoints, along with those of all the other &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.worldcongress.org/WCF5/wcf5.home.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;usual suspects&lt;/a&gt; (many of whom are not RC). The emphasis on the so-called &quot;Natural Family&quot; is a dead give-away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken R: <i>I wonder if the Roman Catholic Church is part of that World Congress of Families?</i></p>
<p>Yes. More the point, it&#8217;s also Opus Dei etc up to its eyeballs. Even a cursory glance through their site reveals constant high level representation, dating back to <a href="http://www.worldcongress.org/WCF1/wcf1_home.htm" rel="nofollow">it&#8217;s founding</a>.</p>
<p>The <a href="http://www.worldcongress.org/WCF/wcf_principles.htm" rel="nofollow">focus et al</a> is completely compatible with official RC viewpoints, along with those of all the other <a href="http://www.worldcongress.org/WCF5/wcf5.home.htm" rel="nofollow">usual suspects</a> (many of whom are not RC). The emphasis on the so-called &#8220;Natural Family&#8221; is a dead give-away.</p>
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		<title>By: Attmay</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/22/7581/comment-page-1#comment-28862</link>
		<dc:creator>Attmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7581#comment-28862</guid>
		<description>Uggh. I am embarrassed to be of Lithuanian descent right now. Luckily the part of Lithuania my great-grandparents are from is now in Belarus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uggh. I am embarrassed to be of Lithuanian descent right now. Luckily the part of Lithuania my great-grandparents are from is now in Belarus.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/22/7581/comment-page-1#comment-28860</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7581#comment-28860</guid>
		<description>Tom,

As I understand it, the Lithuanian legislation is proposed and may well pass, but we don&#039;t yet know the final version.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,</p>
<p>As I understand it, the Lithuanian legislation is proposed and may well pass, but we don&#8217;t yet know the final version.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken R</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/22/7581/comment-page-1#comment-28853</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7581#comment-28853</guid>
		<description>Tom in Lazybrook, thank you for your post. This does not surprise me a bit tho. They would do the same thing here in the States to the GLBT community if they were allowed free rein to do so. They want to regulate and control people&#039;s lives all through their biblical worldview. 

I wonder if the Roman Catholic Church is part of that World Congress of Families?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom in Lazybrook, thank you for your post. This does not surprise me a bit tho. They would do the same thing here in the States to the GLBT community if they were allowed free rein to do so. They want to regulate and control people&#8217;s lives all through their biblical worldview. </p>
<p>I wonder if the Roman Catholic Church is part of that World Congress of Families?</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/22/7581/comment-page-1#comment-28834</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7581#comment-28834</guid>
		<description>Actually, those words were the same words used when Prop 22 passed - http://primary2000.sos.ca.gov/VoterGuide/Propositions/22text.htm.

It would be hard to say the Prop 8 campaign &quot;crafted&quot; these words.  Unfortunately, the Supreme Court posed these questions for the petioners to answer (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/presscenter/newsreleases/NR66-08.PDF), which forced them to addresss the validity of the 18,000 marriages.  The Prop. 8 campaign could have chosen to argue that those marriages are legal - but they did not and that was the lie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, those words were the same words used when Prop 22 passed &#8211; <a href="http://primary2000.sos.ca.gov/VoterGuide/Propositions/22text.htm" rel="nofollow">http://primary2000.sos.ca.gov/VoterGuide/Propositions/22text.htm</a>.</p>
<p>It would be hard to say the Prop 8 campaign &#8220;crafted&#8221; these words.  Unfortunately, the Supreme Court posed these questions for the petioners to answer (<a href="http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/presscenter/newsreleases/NR66-08.PDF" rel="nofollow">http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/presscenter/newsreleases/NR66-08.PDF</a>), which forced them to addresss the validity of the 18,000 marriages.  The Prop. 8 campaign could have chosen to argue that those marriages are legal &#8211; but they did not and that was the lie.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom in Lazybrook</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/22/7581/comment-page-1#comment-28833</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom in Lazybrook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7581#comment-28833</guid>
		<description>Off topic..Apparently the Lithuanian Government has approved legislation banning all freedom of expression, petition, assembly, association for LGBT Lithuanians.  This law has been cheered in a press release by the world Congress of Families.

The World Congress of Families consists of the Family Research Council, Mormon leader Mary Ellen Smoot, and the Beverly LaHaye Crowd. It also appears to be tied to the violence promoting (and participating) Watchmen on the Walls. 

They apparently go around the world advocating/celebrating extreme levels of persecutions of Gay people such as encouraging the retention of laws designed to throw all Gay people in prison, celebrating denial of freedom of speech, assembly, petition, and association for LGBT persons worldwide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off topic..Apparently the Lithuanian Government has approved legislation banning all freedom of expression, petition, assembly, association for LGBT Lithuanians.  This law has been cheered in a press release by the world Congress of Families.</p>
<p>The World Congress of Families consists of the Family Research Council, Mormon leader Mary Ellen Smoot, and the Beverly LaHaye Crowd. It also appears to be tied to the violence promoting (and participating) Watchmen on the Walls. </p>
<p>They apparently go around the world advocating/celebrating extreme levels of persecutions of Gay people such as encouraging the retention of laws designed to throw all Gay people in prison, celebrating denial of freedom of speech, assembly, petition, and association for LGBT persons worldwide.</p>
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		<title>By: David Weintraub</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/22/7581/comment-page-1#comment-28830</link>
		<dc:creator>David Weintraub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7581#comment-28830</guid>
		<description>Identifying a lie as a lie is not name-calling. Remember: It&#039;s all about the &lt;i&gt;behavior.&lt;/i&gt; :)

&quot;Liars also weave a skillful net of word[s] so at to leave the listener with an understanding that is not true&quot; - this perfectly describes the latest emanation from the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.equalityloudoun.org/?p=785&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;laughingstock of Loudoun&lt;/a&gt;, Eugene Delgaudio. His little attorney friend is even defending him with the claim that he has woven a skillful net of words. Must see to appreciate.

I am ordinarily respectful of opponents, but I draw the line at these clowns. There comes a time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Identifying a lie as a lie is not name-calling. Remember: It&#8217;s all about the <i>behavior.</i> :)</p>
<p>&#8220;Liars also weave a skillful net of word[s] so at to leave the listener with an understanding that is not true&#8221; &#8211; this perfectly describes the latest emanation from the <a href="http://www.equalityloudoun.org/?p=785" rel="nofollow">laughingstock of Loudoun</a>, Eugene Delgaudio. His little attorney friend is even defending him with the claim that he has woven a skillful net of words. Must see to appreciate.</p>
<p>I am ordinarily respectful of opponents, but I draw the line at these clowns. There comes a time.</p>
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		<title>By: cowboy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/22/7581/comment-page-1#comment-28823</link>
		<dc:creator>cowboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 14:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7581#comment-28823</guid>
		<description>Mr. Kincaid says:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Liars also weave a skillful net of word[s] so at to leave the listener with an understanding that is not true.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Of late, the defenders of the Mormons statements of equality for gays are now saying that they are not going to &lt;b&gt;promote&lt;/b&gt; equality for gays but that they are &lt;b&gt;just not going to oppose it&lt;/b&gt;.   See the nuance…the skilled use of words they use?  

Not surprising they have a bevy of lawyers mapping out the strategies they will use in the next couple of months when the Utah Legislature is in session.   Some of their best lawyers are those that meet in the super-secret meetings in their sacred Temple.   

Truthiness at its best.  

Oh…and the delivery of the 27,000 HRC letters to the LDS HQ went about as expected.   The smiling official Church representative took the boxes of letters at the door and then probably straight to the recycling bins in the basement. 

Can you feel the love in the air?  Is this that warm friendly feeling of the season?  Or is this just the snarkiness rubbing off everyone on both sides: the HRC and the LDS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Kincaid says:</p>
<blockquote><p>Liars also weave a skillful net of word[s] so at to leave the listener with an understanding that is not true.</p></blockquote>
<p>Of late, the defenders of the Mormons statements of equality for gays are now saying that they are not going to <b>promote</b> equality for gays but that they are <b>just not going to oppose it</b>.   See the nuance…the skilled use of words they use?  </p>
<p>Not surprising they have a bevy of lawyers mapping out the strategies they will use in the next couple of months when the Utah Legislature is in session.   Some of their best lawyers are those that meet in the super-secret meetings in their sacred Temple.   </p>
<p>Truthiness at its best.  </p>
<p>Oh…and the delivery of the 27,000 HRC letters to the LDS HQ went about as expected.   The smiling official Church representative took the boxes of letters at the door and then probably straight to the recycling bins in the basement. </p>
<p>Can you feel the love in the air?  Is this that warm friendly feeling of the season?  Or is this just the snarkiness rubbing off everyone on both sides: the HRC and the LDS.</p>
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		<title>By: Buffy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/22/7581/comment-page-1#comment-28792</link>
		<dc:creator>Buffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 05:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7581#comment-28792</guid>
		<description>They&#039;re trying to forcibly divorce me and my wife, along with some 18,000 other couples.  I had no qualms about calling them names, though I did maintain my policy of not using profanity on my blog (barely).  

http://gaytheistagenda.lavenderliberal.com/2008/12/19/cruel-depraved-inhuman-lying-hateful-bigoted-scum/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They&#8217;re trying to forcibly divorce me and my wife, along with some 18,000 other couples.  I had no qualms about calling them names, though I did maintain my policy of not using profanity on my blog (barely).  </p>
<p><a href="http://gaytheistagenda.lavenderliberal.com/2008/12/19/cruel-depraved-inhuman-lying-hateful-bigoted-scum/" rel="nofollow">http://gaytheistagenda.lavenderliberal.com/2008/12/19/cruel-depraved-inhuman-lying-hateful-bigoted-scum/</a></p>
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