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	<title>Comments on: My Christmas 2008</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/26/7688</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Bobs Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/26/7688/comment-page-1#comment-29577</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobs Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 15:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7688#comment-29577</guid>
		<description>Somehow, I don&#039;t think a nicely done group sing of &quot;Oh Holy Night&quot; can put a pretty face on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somehow, I don&#8217;t think a nicely done group sing of &#8220;Oh Holy Night&#8221; can put a pretty face on this one.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/26/7688/comment-page-1#comment-29363</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7688#comment-29363</guid>
		<description>Michelle,

My congratulations to Valerie and Tracie.  Their efforts certainly help raise the visibility of real people whom this vile amendment has hurt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michelle,</p>
<p>My congratulations to Valerie and Tracie.  Their efforts certainly help raise the visibility of real people whom this vile amendment has hurt.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/26/7688/comment-page-1#comment-29353</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7688#comment-29353</guid>
		<description>My sister and her wife of a year, partner for 10 yrs, has blown me away w/ her ability to respond to similar party/family gathering comments w/ grace, mercy, love and strength.  It is the fruit of her persistent love for those who have rejected her because she is gay, that has led me to change my own deeply rooted fundie beliefs against gay sexual expression in relationships. (ok, that felt like a PC comment...but I&#039;m still learning) Anyway, check out her website and newsclips. I&#039;m so proud of her and her wife, my sisters both of them, for walking from LA to SF to hand deliver a petition to Revoke 8.  Never has the gay community had such 2 beautiful, loving and kind people put a face to their beliefs.  www.revoke8.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My sister and her wife of a year, partner for 10 yrs, has blown me away w/ her ability to respond to similar party/family gathering comments w/ grace, mercy, love and strength.  It is the fruit of her persistent love for those who have rejected her because she is gay, that has led me to change my own deeply rooted fundie beliefs against gay sexual expression in relationships. (ok, that felt like a PC comment&#8230;but I&#8217;m still learning) Anyway, check out her website and newsclips. I&#8217;m so proud of her and her wife, my sisters both of them, for walking from LA to SF to hand deliver a petition to Revoke 8.  Never has the gay community had such 2 beautiful, loving and kind people put a face to their beliefs.  <a href="http://www.revoke8.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.revoke8.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: EdgyB</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/26/7688/comment-page-1#comment-29285</link>
		<dc:creator>EdgyB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7688#comment-29285</guid>
		<description>Is she the type of person who &#039;has lots of gay friends&#039;?  

I think my response would have been &quot;Yeah, that&#039;s me!  Destroying civilization, one romance at a time.&quot;  I&#039;ve always had a pretty good time, giving nonsensical answers to crap like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is she the type of person who &#8216;has lots of gay friends&#8217;?  </p>
<p>I think my response would have been &#8220;Yeah, that&#8217;s me!  Destroying civilization, one romance at a time.&#8221;  I&#8217;ve always had a pretty good time, giving nonsensical answers to crap like this.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/26/7688/comment-page-1#comment-29279</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7688#comment-29279</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m impressed that you were able to be in the same room with her the entire time. I would have thought about gotten up and left because I couldn&#039;t stand being next to somebody who voted to take my rights away. If nothing would convince this girl that she did something very hurtful and wrong, I would have avoided her the entire time and hopefully never have to see her again afterward.

Besides, based on her polygamy response, it sounds like she wasn&#039;t part of the college educated since they are the ones who are more likely to support gay rights than people who aren&#039;t college educated. I can&#039;t stand dumb people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m impressed that you were able to be in the same room with her the entire time. I would have thought about gotten up and left because I couldn&#8217;t stand being next to somebody who voted to take my rights away. If nothing would convince this girl that she did something very hurtful and wrong, I would have avoided her the entire time and hopefully never have to see her again afterward.</p>
<p>Besides, based on her polygamy response, it sounds like she wasn&#8217;t part of the college educated since they are the ones who are more likely to support gay rights than people who aren&#8217;t college educated. I can&#8217;t stand dumb people.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Shevlin</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/26/7688/comment-page-1#comment-29250</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Shevlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7688#comment-29250</guid>
		<description>Understanding the appropriate response does require some better understanding of context. For example, did the woman know that there were four gay people in the room when she made her statement about Proposition 8? If she did, then i would be inclined to respond with some variant of &quot;that is very interesting, but I am curious as to why you decided to tell us this.&quot; If she did not know, then I would probably respond along the lines of &quot;you do know that you essentially voted for a measure to abridge the civil rights of a group of people based on sexual orientation. That sounds like discrimination and bigotry to me&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Understanding the appropriate response does require some better understanding of context. For example, did the woman know that there were four gay people in the room when she made her statement about Proposition 8? If she did, then i would be inclined to respond with some variant of &#8220;that is very interesting, but I am curious as to why you decided to tell us this.&#8221; If she did not know, then I would probably respond along the lines of &#8220;you do know that you essentially voted for a measure to abridge the civil rights of a group of people based on sexual orientation. That sounds like discrimination and bigotry to me&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/26/7688/comment-page-1#comment-29225</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7688#comment-29225</guid>
		<description>Neil H has the best response, in my opinion.

Although I would put it slightly differently &quot;You&#039;re looking for a fight by openly insulting several guests.  I won&#039;t give you the satisfaction, I have too much respect for __(host name)__.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil H has the best response, in my opinion.</p>
<p>Although I would put it slightly differently &#8220;You&#8217;re looking for a fight by openly insulting several guests.  I won&#8217;t give you the satisfaction, I have too much respect for __(host name)__.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Neil H</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/26/7688/comment-page-1#comment-29212</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 08:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7688#comment-29212</guid>
		<description>After some consideration, and agreeing with the people who describe this woman&#039;s behaviour as both passive-aggressive and as an overt act of bigotry, I think my response in a similar situation would be to say &quot;you&#039;re looking for a fight. I&#039;m not going to give you one&quot;. Then I&#039;d enjoy the party.

She wasn&#039;t interested in being &quot;educated&quot;. She was interested in publicly putting you down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After some consideration, and agreeing with the people who describe this woman&#8217;s behaviour as both passive-aggressive and as an overt act of bigotry, I think my response in a similar situation would be to say &#8220;you&#8217;re looking for a fight. I&#8217;m not going to give you one&#8221;. Then I&#8217;d enjoy the party.</p>
<p>She wasn&#8217;t interested in being &#8220;educated&#8221;. She was interested in publicly putting you down.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/26/7688/comment-page-1#comment-29201</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 02:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7688#comment-29201</guid>
		<description>&quot;I would have had a very difficult time being as nice as you, Tim.&quot;

Same, sarcam would&#039;ve probably slipt through, with a smile of course.

&quot;The moment she said what she said I would have thanked my hosts and walked out.&quot;

oH DEAR NO.. that would, imo, be shunning yourself with no actual progress.

&quot;Alternatively, you could simply have refused to engage her socially. Be polite and civil, of course, but do not make conversation&quot;

I FAIL to see the point of non-conversation. Of course.. unless it has already been attempted over and over... and even then...

&quot;If you wanna make stupid comments to me, you’ll get lambasted, and I don’t care which imaginary friend is celebrating their birthday on the occasion in question, or who else is at the table.&quot; 

I think i agree with you miles more than the &#039;polite&#039; ppl.

&quot;It’s time that people like this realize that they are no friend to gays &amp; lesbians, and we are the ones who have to demonstrate that to them at all times, at all costs.&quot; 

I don&#039;t think she doubts we are human or that we can be civil. what she needs a dose of reality.  A witty, intelligent person might make her understand a point or two.

&quot;Accept the fact there are rude people everywhere…at parties, at work and at public events. &quot;

And we should all accept their actions and ignore it. And the next time it happens you&#039;ll do the same. And the next.... until she, again, votes your rights away out of pure ignorance.  Of course you had a chance to attempt to persuade her out of her ill, slippery-sloped, disingenuous reason, and maybe even find a NO vote for the next time.  But you decided to be polite... to accept that there are rude ppl. Surely taking her out in private was fine... but you should have surely tried a bit harder to at least feel.. as if you tried.

 She decided to boast and essentially, like bruno said,  felt &quot;she had held her ground and was morally justified in doing so&quot;. COnsidering you are equal to them you have the same right to do so and could&#039;ve proudly displayed that you had voted yes. This might have opened her to publicly announce her reason and would have left you open (and the rest of you) to expose the flaws to her far-fetched argument.

I hope she has not one.. but two gay children.  Maybe.. just maybe she&#039;ll begin to understand(and empathize) the difference between polygamy and gay relationships.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I would have had a very difficult time being as nice as you, Tim.&#8221;</p>
<p>Same, sarcam would&#8217;ve probably slipt through, with a smile of course.</p>
<p>&#8220;The moment she said what she said I would have thanked my hosts and walked out.&#8221;</p>
<p>oH DEAR NO.. that would, imo, be shunning yourself with no actual progress.</p>
<p>&#8220;Alternatively, you could simply have refused to engage her socially. Be polite and civil, of course, but do not make conversation&#8221;</p>
<p>I FAIL to see the point of non-conversation. Of course.. unless it has already been attempted over and over&#8230; and even then&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;If you wanna make stupid comments to me, you’ll get lambasted, and I don’t care which imaginary friend is celebrating their birthday on the occasion in question, or who else is at the table.&#8221; </p>
<p>I think i agree with you miles more than the &#8216;polite&#8217; ppl.</p>
<p>&#8220;It’s time that people like this realize that they are no friend to gays &amp; lesbians, and we are the ones who have to demonstrate that to them at all times, at all costs.&#8221; </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think she doubts we are human or that we can be civil. what she needs a dose of reality.  A witty, intelligent person might make her understand a point or two.</p>
<p>&#8220;Accept the fact there are rude people everywhere…at parties, at work and at public events. &#8221;</p>
<p>And we should all accept their actions and ignore it. And the next time it happens you&#8217;ll do the same. And the next&#8230;. until she, again, votes your rights away out of pure ignorance.  Of course you had a chance to attempt to persuade her out of her ill, slippery-sloped, disingenuous reason, and maybe even find a NO vote for the next time.  But you decided to be polite&#8230; to accept that there are rude ppl. Surely taking her out in private was fine&#8230; but you should have surely tried a bit harder to at least feel.. as if you tried.</p>
<p> She decided to boast and essentially, like bruno said,  felt &#8220;she had held her ground and was morally justified in doing so&#8221;. COnsidering you are equal to them you have the same right to do so and could&#8217;ve proudly displayed that you had voted yes. This might have opened her to publicly announce her reason and would have left you open (and the rest of you) to expose the flaws to her far-fetched argument.</p>
<p>I hope she has not one.. but two gay children.  Maybe.. just maybe she&#8217;ll begin to understand(and empathize) the difference between polygamy and gay relationships.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/26/7688/comment-page-1#comment-29199</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 02:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7688#comment-29199</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a little confused, was this girl&#039;s boyfriend, the son of the &#039;lovely woman&#039;, the father of her child who also had two other girlfriends, one of whom was pregnant?  If so it sounds like these people have some serious issues.  

If any case I&#039;m wondering if the whole fear of polygamy had anything to do with her personal situation?  Without knowing any of the details I suppose it is impossible to know, but she may have been displacing her anger at the father of her child onto gays.  

Also, who were the other gays there?  Friends? Relatives? How did they react?  And how did the other guests react?  And how did the girl&#039;s boyfriend react?  Were they horrified or did they agree with here?   Just curious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a little confused, was this girl&#8217;s boyfriend, the son of the &#8216;lovely woman&#8217;, the father of her child who also had two other girlfriends, one of whom was pregnant?  If so it sounds like these people have some serious issues.  </p>
<p>If any case I&#8217;m wondering if the whole fear of polygamy had anything to do with her personal situation?  Without knowing any of the details I suppose it is impossible to know, but she may have been displacing her anger at the father of her child onto gays.  </p>
<p>Also, who were the other gays there?  Friends? Relatives? How did they react?  And how did the other guests react?  And how did the girl&#8217;s boyfriend react?  Were they horrified or did they agree with here?   Just curious.</p>
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