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	<title>Comments on: Washington Times&#8217; Dishonest Anti-Gay Insinuation</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/28/7695</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Justice</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/28/7695/comment-page-1#comment-29370</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Justice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7695#comment-29370</guid>
		<description>While the question of whether the Moonies have had to cover an operating deficit at the Washington Times in 2008 remains open, their history of covering such deficits is quite substantial.  In other words, quite beyond founding the paper, the Reverend Doctor Better-than-Jesus Moon regularly puts up hard cash to continue the operations of a rightist and ostensibly free-market propaganda organ that does not even make enough money to cover its operating costs, let alone any dividends.  This does tend to prioritize serving the Moonist agenda ahead of building a popular and profitable business operation, or a real newspaper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the question of whether the Moonies have had to cover an operating deficit at the Washington Times in 2008 remains open, their history of covering such deficits is quite substantial.  In other words, quite beyond founding the paper, the Reverend Doctor Better-than-Jesus Moon regularly puts up hard cash to continue the operations of a rightist and ostensibly free-market propaganda organ that does not even make enough money to cover its operating costs, let alone any dividends.  This does tend to prioritize serving the Moonist agenda ahead of building a popular and profitable business operation, or a real newspaper.</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/28/7695/comment-page-1#comment-29283</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7695#comment-29283</guid>
		<description>There might be precedent over the question of whether the Full Faith and Credit clause would oblige every state to recognise any marriage. For decades many American states forbade interracial marriages; Massachusetts did not have any such law, and to prevent any conflict, it specified that no couple could marry within its borders if they could not do so in their resident state. Was there a legal challenge to a refusal to recognize such a marriage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There might be precedent over the question of whether the Full Faith and Credit clause would oblige every state to recognise any marriage. For decades many American states forbade interracial marriages; Massachusetts did not have any such law, and to prevent any conflict, it specified that no couple could marry within its borders if they could not do so in their resident state. Was there a legal challenge to a refusal to recognize such a marriage?</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn David</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/28/7695/comment-page-1#comment-29264</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7695#comment-29264</guid>
		<description>Yeah, John I went looking for a reason and I believe I found it &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nvbar.org/publications/NevadaLawyer/2004/February/ProfCorner.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;in this article&lt;/a&gt;.

In that article what I think found is that it had to do with the way the Justices ruled in &lt;i&gt;Lawrence v Texas&lt;/i&gt; and the idea of a &quot;public policy exemption&quot; to the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution.  One needs to combine the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution with the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to get passed a &quot;public policy exemption&quot; to the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution.   

Justice O&#039;Connor used the Equal Protection Clause in striking down &lt;i&gt;Bowers&lt;/i&gt; in &lt;i&gt;Lawrence v Texas&lt;/i&gt;.  He also suggested that laws distinguishing between heterosexuals and homosexuals, which are supported by a legitimate state interest such as &quot;preserving the traditional interest of marriage,&quot; would satisfy rational basis review under the Equal Protection Clause.   Scalia&#039;s brief seemed to support that opinion when he noted that marriage was in trouble.  

However, the other five in the majority in &lt;i&gt;Lawrence v Texas&lt;/i&gt; used the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment in striking down &lt;i&gt;Bowers&lt;/i&gt; (and now that I read this I remember some gay attorney friends being pissed that the EPC of the 14th wasn&#039;t more generally used).   The author of the above article says that &quot;&lt;i&gt;the majority in Lawrence, undoubtedly aware of the potential ramifications of the decision beyond the ability of states to criminalize sexual acts between members of the same sex, noted that Lawrence did not involve the issue of &#039;whether the government must give formal recognition to any relationship that homosexual persons may enter.&#039;&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

So I guess Lambda Legal thought the better of a test of the DOMA at that time because of a review of the majorit decision in &lt;i&gt;Lawrence v Texas&lt;/i&gt;.  My guess, however good a guess a laymen might have, is that might be changing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, John I went looking for a reason and I believe I found it <a href="http://www.nvbar.org/publications/NevadaLawyer/2004/February/ProfCorner.htm" rel="nofollow">in this article</a>.</p>
<p>In that article what I think found is that it had to do with the way the Justices ruled in <i>Lawrence v Texas</i> and the idea of a &#8220;public policy exemption&#8221; to the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution.  One needs to combine the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution with the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to get passed a &#8220;public policy exemption&#8221; to the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution.   </p>
<p>Justice O&#8217;Connor used the Equal Protection Clause in striking down <i>Bowers</i> in <i>Lawrence v Texas</i>.  He also suggested that laws distinguishing between heterosexuals and homosexuals, which are supported by a legitimate state interest such as &#8220;preserving the traditional interest of marriage,&#8221; would satisfy rational basis review under the Equal Protection Clause.   Scalia&#8217;s brief seemed to support that opinion when he noted that marriage was in trouble.  </p>
<p>However, the other five in the majority in <i>Lawrence v Texas</i> used the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment in striking down <i>Bowers</i> (and now that I read this I remember some gay attorney friends being pissed that the EPC of the 14th wasn&#8217;t more generally used).   The author of the above article says that &#8220;<i>the majority in Lawrence, undoubtedly aware of the potential ramifications of the decision beyond the ability of states to criminalize sexual acts between members of the same sex, noted that Lawrence did not involve the issue of &#8216;whether the government must give formal recognition to any relationship that homosexual persons may enter.&#8217;</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>So I guess Lambda Legal thought the better of a test of the DOMA at that time because of a review of the majorit decision in <i>Lawrence v Texas</i>.  My guess, however good a guess a laymen might have, is that might be changing.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/28/7695/comment-page-1#comment-29263</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 06:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7695#comment-29263</guid>
		<description>Lynn David,

The reason that the Defense of Marriage Act isn&#039;t currently being challenged by Lambda Legal and other gay groups is out of fear that the current Supreme Court might invalidate(or at least carve out a vary narrow anti-gay exception to) the &quot;full faith and credit clause.&quot;  They are waiting for more moderate Democratic and Republican appointees who would be more likely to uphold the &quot;full faith and credit&quot; clause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lynn David,</p>
<p>The reason that the Defense of Marriage Act isn&#8217;t currently being challenged by Lambda Legal and other gay groups is out of fear that the current Supreme Court might invalidate(or at least carve out a vary narrow anti-gay exception to) the &#8220;full faith and credit clause.&#8221;  They are waiting for more moderate Democratic and Republican appointees who would be more likely to uphold the &#8220;full faith and credit&#8221; clause.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn David</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/28/7695/comment-page-1#comment-29262</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 05:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7695#comment-29262</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with John, that&#039;s a good analysis of the situation.   The DOMA is unconstitutional, and I still don&#039;t understand why the court case on it (I think by a gay couple who moved from Massachusetts to Florida, and maybe others) was dropped by them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with John, that&#8217;s a good analysis of the situation.   The DOMA is unconstitutional, and I still don&#8217;t understand why the court case on it (I think by a gay couple who moved from Massachusetts to Florida, and maybe others) was dropped by them.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/28/7695/comment-page-1#comment-29260</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 04:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7695#comment-29260</guid>
		<description>I must disagree with John on the full faith and credit clause of the federal constitution.

That clause, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Article4&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Article IV section 1&lt;/a&gt;, states:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. &lt;b&gt;And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This simply means that the public acts and records of other states must be duly recognized by every state. It does not give a state the power to use its laws to force a change in the laws of other states.

Also, in calling the Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutional, John is ignoring the second part of the clause (which I put in &lt;b&gt;bold&lt;/b&gt;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must disagree with John on the full faith and credit clause of the federal constitution.</p>
<p>That clause, <a href="http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Article4" rel="nofollow">Article IV section 1</a>, states:</p>
<blockquote><p>Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. <b>And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.</b></p></blockquote>
<p>This simply means that the public acts and records of other states must be duly recognized by every state. It does not give a state the power to use its laws to force a change in the laws of other states.</p>
<p>Also, in calling the Defense of Marriage Act unconstitutional, John is ignoring the second part of the clause (which I put in <b>bold</b>).</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/28/7695/comment-page-1#comment-29254</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 03:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7695#comment-29254</guid>
		<description>I would agree that the Washington Times is nothing more than the Moonie Times.  When I lived in DC, I remember getting a subscription call from the Washington Times where the caller asked to speak to the &quot;man of the house.&quot;  I told him that I would never buy that Moonie rag.

All that being said, the paper is correct.  The Defense of Marriage Act is patently unconstitutional and any fair reading of the &quot;full faith and credit&quot; clause of the Constitution would require states to recognize legally binding marriages in other states.  

The whole &quot;homosexual activists&quot; scare mongering is a bit offensive, but oddly enough, the Washington Times got it right on their reading of the Constitution.  Hopefully Obama can appoint a few fair-minded judges who aren&#039;t going to void the &quot;full faith and credit&quot; clause, and we will have legally recognized marriage equality in this country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree that the Washington Times is nothing more than the Moonie Times.  When I lived in DC, I remember getting a subscription call from the Washington Times where the caller asked to speak to the &#8220;man of the house.&#8221;  I told him that I would never buy that Moonie rag.</p>
<p>All that being said, the paper is correct.  The Defense of Marriage Act is patently unconstitutional and any fair reading of the &#8220;full faith and credit&#8221; clause of the Constitution would require states to recognize legally binding marriages in other states.  </p>
<p>The whole &#8220;homosexual activists&#8221; scare mongering is a bit offensive, but oddly enough, the Washington Times got it right on their reading of the Constitution.  Hopefully Obama can appoint a few fair-minded judges who aren&#8217;t going to void the &#8220;full faith and credit&#8221; clause, and we will have legally recognized marriage equality in this country.</p>
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		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/28/7695/comment-page-1#comment-29242</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 22:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7695#comment-29242</guid>
		<description>The WT pushes Moon&#039;s extreme right wing homophobic agenda and always will. Solomon is the latest to help Moon with his messianic mission to control the direction of world events. He was on Cspan last spring and deceived the viewers about the relationship between the paper and its homophobic megalomaniac owner, Moon.

Moon brags about using the paper to &quot;influence&quot; America and it has. The nation would not be as right wing and the Republican Party would not depend on a base of homphobes and anti-science theocrats absent Moon&#039;s &quot;efforts.&quot; 

http://tinyurl.com/54dpz

http://tinyurl.com/a564bs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The WT pushes Moon&#8217;s extreme right wing homophobic agenda and always will. Solomon is the latest to help Moon with his messianic mission to control the direction of world events. He was on Cspan last spring and deceived the viewers about the relationship between the paper and its homophobic megalomaniac owner, Moon.</p>
<p>Moon brags about using the paper to &#8220;influence&#8221; America and it has. The nation would not be as right wing and the Republican Party would not depend on a base of homphobes and anti-science theocrats absent Moon&#8217;s &#8220;efforts.&#8221; </p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/54dpz" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/54dpz</a></p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/a564bs" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/a564bs</a></p>
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		<title>By: elaygee</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/12/28/7695/comment-page-1#comment-29234</link>
		<dc:creator>elaygee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=7695#comment-29234</guid>
		<description>Who reads that trash paper anymore? Real news is available free on the internet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who reads that trash paper anymore? Real news is available free on the internet.</p>
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