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	<title>Comments on: I&#8217;m disappointed, Sam Adams</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/20/8222</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: BobN</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/20/8222/comment-page-1#comment-31399</link>
		<dc:creator>BobN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8222#comment-31399</guid>
		<description>One more thing... Beau Breedlove.  Down right Dickensian!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thing&#8230; Beau Breedlove.  Down right Dickensian!</p>
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		<title>By: BobN</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/20/8222/comment-page-1#comment-31398</link>
		<dc:creator>BobN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8222#comment-31398</guid>
		<description>&quot;but if the relationship started when Breedlove was 17, then it’s a crime and hence a story&quot;

If a sexual relationship started, yes.  Otherwise, no, not at all.

I have always found men in the mid to late 30s to be the most attractive.  Adams would certainly qualify.  I felt this when I was 15 and I still feel it now that I&#039;m 50.  I&#039;ll probably still think it when I&#039;m 90.

I suppose folks like Emily might find both ends of that arc &quot;icky&quot;.  I consider it consistent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;but if the relationship started when Breedlove was 17, then it’s a crime and hence a story&#8221;</p>
<p>If a sexual relationship started, yes.  Otherwise, no, not at all.</p>
<p>I have always found men in the mid to late 30s to be the most attractive.  Adams would certainly qualify.  I felt this when I was 15 and I still feel it now that I&#8217;m 50.  I&#8217;ll probably still think it when I&#8217;m 90.</p>
<p>I suppose folks like Emily might find both ends of that arc &#8220;icky&#8221;.  I consider it consistent.</p>
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		<title>By: aratina</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/20/8222/comment-page-1#comment-31331</link>
		<dc:creator>aratina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8222#comment-31331</guid>
		<description>There is nothing wrong with this. I know of one married heterosexual couple who is 21 years apart (female being older) and another composed of first cousins. Both are doing fine and very happy together and accepted by everyone who knows them. This fake outrage is just more of the same homophobic bile from the media. It is only ok because the mayor is gay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is nothing wrong with this. I know of one married heterosexual couple who is 21 years apart (female being older) and another composed of first cousins. Both are doing fine and very happy together and accepted by everyone who knows them. This fake outrage is just more of the same homophobic bile from the media. It is only ok because the mayor is gay.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/20/8222/comment-page-1#comment-31307</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8222#comment-31307</guid>
		<description>Christopher, morals have nothing to do with it. It&#039;s about what I think is &quot;icky.&quot; And I think it&#039;s &quot;icky.&quot; Nothing in my religion teaches me that it&#039;s &quot;immoral;&quot; my parents never taught me it was &quot;immoral.&quot; 

On an ethical side, legal or not, I believe certain lines were breached. For example, a doctor is breaching ethics by having an intimate relationship with a patient - even if that patient is the same age and shares the same birthday. It creates a conflict of interest. But it is perfectly legal. Similar ethical lines were crossed when the mentor had a sexual relationship with the &quot;mentee.&quot;

And finally, Adams shouldn&#039;t give two shits about whether I or anyone else thinks it&#039;s &quot;icky&quot; as long as he has strong convictions about the matter. I mean, there are citizens he serves that think gay sexual acts are &quot;icky&quot; (which they are absolutely entitled to that opinion) but Adams didn&#039;t hide his orientation just to appease them. Why should he hide this relationship? Unless he thought it was wrong or something... who knows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher, morals have nothing to do with it. It&#8217;s about what I think is &#8220;icky.&#8221; And I think it&#8217;s &#8220;icky.&#8221; Nothing in my religion teaches me that it&#8217;s &#8220;immoral;&#8221; my parents never taught me it was &#8220;immoral.&#8221; </p>
<p>On an ethical side, legal or not, I believe certain lines were breached. For example, a doctor is breaching ethics by having an intimate relationship with a patient &#8211; even if that patient is the same age and shares the same birthday. It creates a conflict of interest. But it is perfectly legal. Similar ethical lines were crossed when the mentor had a sexual relationship with the &#8220;mentee.&#8221;</p>
<p>And finally, Adams shouldn&#8217;t give two shits about whether I or anyone else thinks it&#8217;s &#8220;icky&#8221; as long as he has strong convictions about the matter. I mean, there are citizens he serves that think gay sexual acts are &#8220;icky&#8221; (which they are absolutely entitled to that opinion) but Adams didn&#8217;t hide his orientation just to appease them. Why should he hide this relationship? Unless he thought it was wrong or something&#8230; who knows.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/20/8222/comment-page-1#comment-31306</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8222#comment-31306</guid>
		<description>Adams can date who he wants without any persons approval. I think it is great that they got together and didn&#039;t worry about the age thing. What a bunch of crap. As long as the young guy was 18 so what. I have had two long time relationships. One was 13 years younger and the other was 30 years older and I had a blast. Lighten up and give the guy some support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adams can date who he wants without any persons approval. I think it is great that they got together and didn&#8217;t worry about the age thing. What a bunch of crap. As long as the young guy was 18 so what. I have had two long time relationships. One was 13 years younger and the other was 30 years older and I had a blast. Lighten up and give the guy some support.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher™</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/20/8222/comment-page-1#comment-31287</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher™</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8222#comment-31287</guid>
		<description>Emily K:  &quot;I understand wanting to keep things private, but I’m under the impression that he actively tried to keep the story hidden from view. It’s like he was putting himself inside another closet.&quot;

Well, with overreactions like yours, it&#039;s no surprise.

You act as if I&#039;m trying to change your opinion; I&#039;m not.  I&#039;m just pointing out that just because others&#039; dating choices are not yours does not automatically make them &quot;creepy.&quot;

Relationships are often much more complex than at first glance, and while you&#039;re welcome to hold your simplistic moral approach in this area, it is not helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily K:  &#8220;I understand wanting to keep things private, but I’m under the impression that he actively tried to keep the story hidden from view. It’s like he was putting himself inside another closet.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, with overreactions like yours, it&#8217;s no surprise.</p>
<p>You act as if I&#8217;m trying to change your opinion; I&#8217;m not.  I&#8217;m just pointing out that just because others&#8217; dating choices are not yours does not automatically make them &#8220;creepy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Relationships are often much more complex than at first glance, and while you&#8217;re welcome to hold your simplistic moral approach in this area, it is not helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/20/8222/comment-page-1#comment-31268</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8222#comment-31268</guid>
		<description>One thing I don&#039;t understand about the situation, though:

the fling happened a couple years ago when the kid turned 18 (he&#039;s now 21 apparently) and yet Adams took pains to see that it remained hidden. I don&#039;t understand why, if it is legal and it is simply his preference of age in a partner, he needed to keep it hidden. Why did he need to hide it? Why not be honest about it in the first place since it is not a criminal offense? Is it because he felt his actions, though not illegal, would have compromised his election? 

I understand wanting to keep things private, but I&#039;m under the impression that he actively tried to keep the story hidden from view. It&#039;s like he was putting himself inside another closet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing I don&#8217;t understand about the situation, though:</p>
<p>the fling happened a couple years ago when the kid turned 18 (he&#8217;s now 21 apparently) and yet Adams took pains to see that it remained hidden. I don&#8217;t understand why, if it is legal and it is simply his preference of age in a partner, he needed to keep it hidden. Why did he need to hide it? Why not be honest about it in the first place since it is not a criminal offense? Is it because he felt his actions, though not illegal, would have compromised his election? </p>
<p>I understand wanting to keep things private, but I&#8217;m under the impression that he actively tried to keep the story hidden from view. It&#8217;s like he was putting himself inside another closet.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/20/8222/comment-page-1#comment-31266</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8222#comment-31266</guid>
		<description>I think what Seinfeld did was creepy too. And the situation involving Woody Allen and his current wife is creepy, even though that is also perfectly legal. 

People are welcome to brush off my simple opinions on the matter as psychological issues, diagnose me from their keyboards, and whatever else, that&#039;s fine. Just like it&#039;s ok for me to have my opinion and do the same to them. I&#039;m not changing based on others&#039; opinion of me, and certainly nobody needs to change based on my opinion of them. Nor am I expecting/hoping for them to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what Seinfeld did was creepy too. And the situation involving Woody Allen and his current wife is creepy, even though that is also perfectly legal. </p>
<p>People are welcome to brush off my simple opinions on the matter as psychological issues, diagnose me from their keyboards, and whatever else, that&#8217;s fine. Just like it&#8217;s ok for me to have my opinion and do the same to them. I&#8217;m not changing based on others&#8217; opinion of me, and certainly nobody needs to change based on my opinion of them. Nor am I expecting/hoping for them to.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/20/8222/comment-page-1#comment-31261</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8222#comment-31261</guid>
		<description>While Providence is only 1/3 the population of Portland, I would argue that it&#039;s a &quot;major city&quot; -- and one that has had an openly gay mayor since 2002.  (And no sex scandals yet.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While Providence is only 1/3 the population of Portland, I would argue that it&#8217;s a &#8220;major city&#8221; &#8212; and one that has had an openly gay mayor since 2002.  (And no sex scandals yet.)</p>
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		<title>By: Mad John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/20/8222/comment-page-1#comment-31258</link>
		<dc:creator>Mad John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8222#comment-31258</guid>
		<description>AJD and Jim sort of approach the point I&#039;m about to make here from different directions. The reason there weren&#039;t howls of protest over Seinfeld/Lonstein was because Seinfeld&#039;s behavior was not generalized to other straight men. No one saw that relationship and concluded &quot;All straight men (or comedians or Jews) like teenage girls.&quot; It was seen as one guy conducting himself in a way some people felt untoward. 

Questionable behavior by members of minorities, conversely, is frequently generalized to and held against other members of the minority. This isn&#039;t fair, but it&#039;s the truth. That&#039;s where stereotypes come from. Ask any black person how they feel when the perpetrator of a high-profile crime turns out to be black - they cringe, because they know it reinforces the (false) stereotype that blacks are inherently more violent or criminal.  

I cringed Monday night. After Mark Foley, after Barney Frank, after Gerry Studds, here&#039;s another gay politician with an interest in young males. To a lot of people outside our progressive little bubble here, folks, that&#039;s a pattern. And most of those folks aren&#039;t real rational about potential threats to their children.

That&#039;s why it&#039;s incumbent on folks like Sam Adams to adhere to a higher standard. His behavior has implications for those of us without his power and privilege. Arkansas just banned gay adoption - anyone think that&#039;s the last such state measure we&#039;re likely to see? 

Nonetheless, had Adams been honest about this from the outset, given the nature of Portland, I believe the issue would have come and gone with much less fallout. Instead, his lies led to the slurring of Bob Ball and the apparent buy-off of Amy Ruiz. And, of course, created a national story out of an essential nonstory.

It&#039;s the lying that&#039;s compounded all of this unnecessarily. It&#039;s the lying I&#039;m angry about. And it&#039;s the lying that will make it appear there was something to hide, stoke the perception that gays shouldn&#039;t be trusted around kids, and potentially harm the next gay person running for office or trying to adopt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AJD and Jim sort of approach the point I&#8217;m about to make here from different directions. The reason there weren&#8217;t howls of protest over Seinfeld/Lonstein was because Seinfeld&#8217;s behavior was not generalized to other straight men. No one saw that relationship and concluded &#8220;All straight men (or comedians or Jews) like teenage girls.&#8221; It was seen as one guy conducting himself in a way some people felt untoward. </p>
<p>Questionable behavior by members of minorities, conversely, is frequently generalized to and held against other members of the minority. This isn&#8217;t fair, but it&#8217;s the truth. That&#8217;s where stereotypes come from. Ask any black person how they feel when the perpetrator of a high-profile crime turns out to be black &#8211; they cringe, because they know it reinforces the (false) stereotype that blacks are inherently more violent or criminal.  </p>
<p>I cringed Monday night. After Mark Foley, after Barney Frank, after Gerry Studds, here&#8217;s another gay politician with an interest in young males. To a lot of people outside our progressive little bubble here, folks, that&#8217;s a pattern. And most of those folks aren&#8217;t real rational about potential threats to their children.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s incumbent on folks like Sam Adams to adhere to a higher standard. His behavior has implications for those of us without his power and privilege. Arkansas just banned gay adoption &#8211; anyone think that&#8217;s the last such state measure we&#8217;re likely to see? </p>
<p>Nonetheless, had Adams been honest about this from the outset, given the nature of Portland, I believe the issue would have come and gone with much less fallout. Instead, his lies led to the slurring of Bob Ball and the apparent buy-off of Amy Ruiz. And, of course, created a national story out of an essential nonstory.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the lying that&#8217;s compounded all of this unnecessarily. It&#8217;s the lying I&#8217;m angry about. And it&#8217;s the lying that will make it appear there was something to hide, stoke the perception that gays shouldn&#8217;t be trusted around kids, and potentially harm the next gay person running for office or trying to adopt.</p>
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