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	<title>Comments on: Sam Adams and the Double Standard: Part 2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/24/8324/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/24/8324</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: jack</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/24/8324/comment-page-1#comment-32504</link>
		<dc:creator>jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 23:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8324#comment-32504</guid>
		<description>He was 17 when the sexual relationship took place.  I know Beau and he is not telling the truth.  I know the timelime of when he lived in Michigan with Merkle.  People are getting the story wrong.  This 42 year old mayor had sex with a 17 year old boy.  This is disgusting and he should resign.  Sometime in the near future, some reporter will actually contact the correct people and get the real story.  Why is nobody listening to Merkle?  He is trying to tell the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He was 17 when the sexual relationship took place.  I know Beau and he is not telling the truth.  I know the timelime of when he lived in Michigan with Merkle.  People are getting the story wrong.  This 42 year old mayor had sex with a 17 year old boy.  This is disgusting and he should resign.  Sometime in the near future, some reporter will actually contact the correct people and get the real story.  Why is nobody listening to Merkle?  He is trying to tell the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: stevepdx</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/24/8324/comment-page-1#comment-31847</link>
		<dc:creator>stevepdx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 07:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8324#comment-31847</guid>
		<description>&quot;Breedlove was an 18-year-old man when they initiated their sexual affair.&quot;  I guess kissing Breedlove more than once, including in the men&#039;s room at city hall when Breedlove was 17, as Beau acknowledged in a recent interview, doesn&#039;t count. As for lying, Clinton was Impeached but did not resign. It&#039;s the difference between federal/local laws. When IL Governor Blago is impeached, he&#039;s kicked out. Adams undercut the election, slandered his opponents, lied in writing and to his colleagues faces, and appointed the investigating reporter to be his advisor on sustainability planning despite having no experience in sustainability, planning or government. HELLO!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Breedlove was an 18-year-old man when they initiated their sexual affair.&#8221;  I guess kissing Breedlove more than once, including in the men&#8217;s room at city hall when Breedlove was 17, as Beau acknowledged in a recent interview, doesn&#8217;t count. As for lying, Clinton was Impeached but did not resign. It&#8217;s the difference between federal/local laws. When IL Governor Blago is impeached, he&#8217;s kicked out. Adams undercut the election, slandered his opponents, lied in writing and to his colleagues faces, and appointed the investigating reporter to be his advisor on sustainability planning despite having no experience in sustainability, planning or government. HELLO!?</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/24/8324/comment-page-1#comment-31621</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 18:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8324#comment-31621</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That sounds like grooming to me.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Then &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.texaspolicecentral.com/childsex.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;perhaps&lt;/a&gt; you should become &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vachss.com/guest_dispatches/grooming.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;better&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hero-project.org/en/grooming-behaviors&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;informed&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That sounds like grooming to me.</p></blockquote>
<p>Then <a href="http://www.texaspolicecentral.com/childsex.html" rel="nofollow">perhaps</a> you should become <a href="http://www.vachss.com/guest_dispatches/grooming.html" rel="nofollow">better</a> <a href="http://www.hero-project.org/en/grooming-behaviors" rel="nofollow">informed</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/24/8324/comment-page-1#comment-31619</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 18:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8324#comment-31619</guid>
		<description>Oh please Timothy. Get off your high horse. I chose those words because that&#039;s what it sounds like. Grooming. I don&#039;t mean he took a sexually niave 11 year old and showed him porno for 6 years. I mean he was kissing a 17 year old in the men&#039;s room of city hall, making it clear that he wanted something more once the clock struck midnight. That sounds like grooming to me. 

Oh, and guess what? It would be the same thing if a lesbian mayor were involved with a female 17 year old page who &quot;knew what they were doing&quot; and &quot;wanted a mayor that was a friend with benefits.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh please Timothy. Get off your high horse. I chose those words because that&#8217;s what it sounds like. Grooming. I don&#8217;t mean he took a sexually niave 11 year old and showed him porno for 6 years. I mean he was kissing a 17 year old in the men&#8217;s room of city hall, making it clear that he wanted something more once the clock struck midnight. That sounds like grooming to me. </p>
<p>Oh, and guess what? It would be the same thing if a lesbian mayor were involved with a female 17 year old page who &#8220;knew what they were doing&#8221; and &#8220;wanted a mayor that was a friend with benefits.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/24/8324/comment-page-1#comment-31606</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8324#comment-31606</guid>
		<description>No, Emily.  

&quot;Grooming&quot; and &quot;initiate&quot; would never be used to discuss a few-weeks-from-18 year old girl.  These are terms that suggest a much younger child are are associated with pedophilia.

You have chosen these words purposefully.  I find your word choice to be less than admirable.  I find your insistence on defending your word choice to be telling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Emily.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Grooming&#8221; and &#8220;initiate&#8221; would never be used to discuss a few-weeks-from-18 year old girl.  These are terms that suggest a much younger child are are associated with pedophilia.</p>
<p>You have chosen these words purposefully.  I find your word choice to be less than admirable.  I find your insistence on defending your word choice to be telling.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/24/8324/comment-page-1#comment-31604</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8324#comment-31604</guid>
		<description>So let me see if I understand this: If a straight man engages in inappropriate contact with a minor, he is doing something akin to &quot;grooming&quot; and &quot;initiation.&quot; But when a gay man does it, we&#039;re not allowed to talk about it in that manner because it fulfills a gay stereotype. 

Which is why most of all I&#039;m angry. Because Adams is a &quot;first,&quot; because he&#039;s a minority and needs to be &quot;twice as good&quot; for lack of a better term. And he wasn&#039;t. Instead, he engaged in acts that Exodus testimonials are filled with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So let me see if I understand this: If a straight man engages in inappropriate contact with a minor, he is doing something akin to &#8220;grooming&#8221; and &#8220;initiation.&#8221; But when a gay man does it, we&#8217;re not allowed to talk about it in that manner because it fulfills a gay stereotype. </p>
<p>Which is why most of all I&#8217;m angry. Because Adams is a &#8220;first,&#8221; because he&#8217;s a minority and needs to be &#8220;twice as good&#8221; for lack of a better term. And he wasn&#8217;t. Instead, he engaged in acts that Exodus testimonials are filled with.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/24/8324/comment-page-1#comment-31601</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8324#comment-31601</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Is it because he lied about something that shouldn’t have been anybody’s business to begin with — that he had sex with a consenting adult that might creep other people out?&lt;/i&gt;

He lied.  Several times.  Whether it creeps someone out is a matter for each individual to decide on whether that effects their vote or not.  If a politician is asked a question that isn&#039;t anyone else&#039;s business they can refuse to respond but they&#039;d better not lie about it or they&#039;ll suffer the consequences when they&#039;re caught.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Is it because he lied about something that shouldn’t have been anybody’s business to begin with — that he had sex with a consenting adult that might creep other people out?</i></p>
<p>He lied.  Several times.  Whether it creeps someone out is a matter for each individual to decide on whether that effects their vote or not.  If a politician is asked a question that isn&#8217;t anyone else&#8217;s business they can refuse to respond but they&#8217;d better not lie about it or they&#8217;ll suffer the consequences when they&#8217;re caught.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/24/8324/comment-page-1#comment-31599</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8324#comment-31599</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;When did the gay political movement become an arm of the Moral Majority? When gay people start sounding like Jerry Falwell I want to vomit.&lt;/i&gt;

So any sense of morality or values a gay person may have makes them a tool of the Religious Right in your eyes?  That&#039;s quite telling and also patently absurd.

&lt;i&gt;The private life of people is not public business unless that private life includes a violation of the law, lying in court, etc. Adams had no obligation to “come clean” with “the public” because “the public” has no right to know who he was dating.&lt;/i&gt;

When he chose to lie not once, but several times about this past relationship it became a matter of public concern.  It speaks of his lack of personal character.  And whether you agree or not, there are a many people who have a BIG problem with a 42 year old man having a fling with a just-turned 18 year old.  

&lt;i&gt;Dating a 17 year old is not a crime. (though they didn’t date then). Kissing a 17 year old is not a crime (though I suspect the antisex nuts will try to criminalize it.)&lt;/i&gt;

Wrong on both counts.  It&#039;s called contributing to the deliquency of a minor if not sexual contact is involved, far worse if such is included.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>When did the gay political movement become an arm of the Moral Majority? When gay people start sounding like Jerry Falwell I want to vomit.</i></p>
<p>So any sense of morality or values a gay person may have makes them a tool of the Religious Right in your eyes?  That&#8217;s quite telling and also patently absurd.</p>
<p><i>The private life of people is not public business unless that private life includes a violation of the law, lying in court, etc. Adams had no obligation to “come clean” with “the public” because “the public” has no right to know who he was dating.</i></p>
<p>When he chose to lie not once, but several times about this past relationship it became a matter of public concern.  It speaks of his lack of personal character.  And whether you agree or not, there are a many people who have a BIG problem with a 42 year old man having a fling with a just-turned 18 year old.  </p>
<p><i>Dating a 17 year old is not a crime. (though they didn’t date then). Kissing a 17 year old is not a crime (though I suspect the antisex nuts will try to criminalize it.)</i></p>
<p>Wrong on both counts.  It&#8217;s called contributing to the deliquency of a minor if not sexual contact is involved, far worse if such is included.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/24/8324/comment-page-1#comment-31597</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8324#comment-31597</guid>
		<description>Emily,

As I am certain that you know, comments including the terms &quot;grooming&quot; and &quot;initiate&quot; generally are accompanied with claims that young men are homosexual because of predatory older men making them so and that gay men are pedophiles.

That you are so comfortable with these terms - even after having them brought to your attention - says very little about Adams but it does tell us a great deal about your assumptions and attitudes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily,</p>
<p>As I am certain that you know, comments including the terms &#8220;grooming&#8221; and &#8220;initiate&#8221; generally are accompanied with claims that young men are homosexual because of predatory older men making them so and that gay men are pedophiles.</p>
<p>That you are so comfortable with these terms &#8211; even after having them brought to your attention &#8211; says very little about Adams but it does tell us a great deal about your assumptions and attitudes.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan L</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/01/24/8324/comment-page-1#comment-31560</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 01:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=8324#comment-31560</guid>
		<description>Personally, I think that Clinton should have resigned, and that Adams should resign as well, but that&#039;s really the only coherent position that you can take to be able to call for Adams&#039; resignation. The Clinton precedent, which is essentially that politicians have zero obligation to tell the truth to the public (or to the courts, even under oath, for that matter) is a shameful one, but given it seems to be the governing one, I can&#039;t really fault Adams&#039; decision.  Complaining of the double standard seems to be to be spot on--though I happen to think that straights should be held to the standard that gays are apparently to be held to, rather than vice versa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I think that Clinton should have resigned, and that Adams should resign as well, but that&#8217;s really the only coherent position that you can take to be able to call for Adams&#8217; resignation. The Clinton precedent, which is essentially that politicians have zero obligation to tell the truth to the public (or to the courts, even under oath, for that matter) is a shameful one, but given it seems to be the governing one, I can&#8217;t really fault Adams&#8217; decision.  Complaining of the double standard seems to be to be spot on&#8211;though I happen to think that straights should be held to the standard that gays are apparently to be held to, rather than vice versa.</p>
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