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	<title>Comments on: More Proof: Buttars Sanctioned for Being An Embarrasment, Not for Being A Bigot</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/02/22/9057/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/02/22/9057</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: E</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/02/22/9057/comment-page-1#comment-34612</link>
		<dc:creator>E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 04:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=9057#comment-34612</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t anyone think that stereotyping ALL Mormons is just another form of unacceptable bigotry? There were many, many Mormons who support the gay community,opposed the repeal of Prop 8, reject Buttars&#039; idiocy,and are calling for his removal from the senate. Indeed, check out the outraged reaction among the Mormon community to Buttars, not because they are embarrassed, but because they believe he violates basic ideals of kindness, decency, and justice. We have to avoid the same evil we are accusing others of, or else we have no moral authority on this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t anyone think that stereotyping ALL Mormons is just another form of unacceptable bigotry? There were many, many Mormons who support the gay community,opposed the repeal of Prop 8, reject Buttars&#8217; idiocy,and are calling for his removal from the senate. Indeed, check out the outraged reaction among the Mormon community to Buttars, not because they are embarrassed, but because they believe he violates basic ideals of kindness, decency, and justice. We have to avoid the same evil we are accusing others of, or else we have no moral authority on this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: cowboy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/02/22/9057/comment-page-1#comment-34466</link>
		<dc:creator>cowboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=9057#comment-34466</guid>
		<description>This is how Utah’s theocracy works:  The local media (TV, radio and newspapers) know about the big Gorilla in their midst.  They don’t want to make the Gorilla angry.   They don’t want to make people angry who think the Gorilla can do no bad things...the Gorilla is perfect in everything it does.   In fact, too much negative press about the Gorilla will alienate the majority of the populace.   If that populace gets angry with the media, then the media will have to deal with potential loss of advertising revenue.  

See…a cozy little symbiotic relationship a big Gorilla has in its jungle.     

So, it will take an “outside” news reporter to get answers to the really difficult questions.   Like:  “What particular statements Mr. C. Buttars said about gays did you agree with?”  &lt;i&gt;[An “outside” news reporter would not accept a non-answer answer.]&lt;/i&gt;  “Why is the methodology of his statement more important than the sentiment?”  &lt;i&gt;[The “outside” reporter can tell if the interviewee is trying to pretend he didn’t hear the question.]&lt;/i&gt;  “Will Reed Cowan get his documentary aired on some TV Channel in Salt Lake City?”  &lt;i&gt;[The “outside” report could ask: “Did you just mumble: “When it snows in Hades?”]&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is how Utah’s theocracy works:  The local media (TV, radio and newspapers) know about the big Gorilla in their midst.  They don’t want to make the Gorilla angry.   They don’t want to make people angry who think the Gorilla can do no bad things&#8230;the Gorilla is perfect in everything it does.   In fact, too much negative press about the Gorilla will alienate the majority of the populace.   If that populace gets angry with the media, then the media will have to deal with potential loss of advertising revenue.  </p>
<p>See…a cozy little symbiotic relationship a big Gorilla has in its jungle.     </p>
<p>So, it will take an “outside” news reporter to get answers to the really difficult questions.   Like:  “What particular statements Mr. C. Buttars said about gays did you agree with?”  <i>[An “outside” news reporter would not accept a non-answer answer.]</i>  “Why is the methodology of his statement more important than the sentiment?”  <i>[The “outside” reporter can tell if the interviewee is trying to pretend he didn’t hear the question.]</i>  “Will Reed Cowan get his documentary aired on some TV Channel in Salt Lake City?”  <i>[The “outside” report could ask: “Did you just mumble: “When it snows in Hades?”]</i></p>
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		<title>By: Scott P.</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/02/22/9057/comment-page-1#comment-34460</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=9057#comment-34460</guid>
		<description>Richard, that&#039;s one of the reasons I had to get out of there. The people, on the whole, are nice (sometimes phonier than many I&#039;ve met in Hollywood) but the government is in the hands of the LDS hierarchy, make no  mistakes about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, that&#8217;s one of the reasons I had to get out of there. The people, on the whole, are nice (sometimes phonier than many I&#8217;ve met in Hollywood) but the government is in the hands of the LDS hierarchy, make no  mistakes about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Rush</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/02/22/9057/comment-page-1#comment-34458</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Rush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=9057#comment-34458</guid>
		<description>Cowboy wrote (emphasis mine):
&lt;blockquote&gt;There needs to be more condemnation of this kind of bigotry and it should come from &lt;strong&gt;outside &lt;/strong&gt;the State of Utah…&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m guessing it will have to come from outside of Utah. The more I learn about Utah, the more it looks like a de facto theocracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cowboy wrote (emphasis mine):</p>
<blockquote><p>There needs to be more condemnation of this kind of bigotry and it should come from <strong>outside </strong>the State of Utah…</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing it will have to come from outside of Utah. The more I learn about Utah, the more it looks like a de facto theocracy.</p>
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		<title>By: cowboy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/02/22/9057/comment-page-1#comment-34440</link>
		<dc:creator>cowboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=9057#comment-34440</guid>
		<description>I just like to be called:  poofreader.  
(note the double entendre)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just like to be called:  poofreader.<br />
(note the double entendre)</p>
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		<title>By: David C.</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/02/22/9057/comment-page-1#comment-34439</link>
		<dc:creator>David C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=9057#comment-34439</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;No, Utah won’t be any less hostile [than] it’s been before.  But they’ll be less obvious about it.  And, perhaps, that’s a small victory for all [sides]. ---K&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I would hesitate to call that much of a victory.  I&#039;d prefer the bigotry of others to be as visible as possible so it has a better chance of being questioned, exposed for what it as, and seen in how it ultimately manifests.  That&#039;s a major part of this flap.  

When Buttars let it all hang out was when the true character of the Utah senate Republicans became blindingly evident.  As long as all that stayed behind the scenes, it was hard for more moderate leaders and Democrats to get a political handle on.  All of that has changed, and even though the slap on the wrists received by Buttars was scant punishment, the blow to the socially ultra-conservative Republican caucus in the Utah senate will likely reverberate for some time.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The moderate Governor of Utah wants to “move on” with business at the Legislature. The Buttars affair is over. ---cowboy &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Right, of course.  Utah, like a lot of other states is wrestling with the current economic downturn.  Gov. Huntsman has already gone on record as favoring more recognition and protection for gay couples and gay people in general.  There is, at least at this time for the Governor, little to be gained by trying to make political hay out of the Buttars affair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>No, Utah won’t be any less hostile [than] it’s been before.  But they’ll be less obvious about it.  And, perhaps, that’s a small victory for all [sides]. &#8212;K</p></blockquote>
<p>I would hesitate to call that much of a victory.  I&#8217;d prefer the bigotry of others to be as visible as possible so it has a better chance of being questioned, exposed for what it as, and seen in how it ultimately manifests.  That&#8217;s a major part of this flap.  </p>
<p>When Buttars let it all hang out was when the true character of the Utah senate Republicans became blindingly evident.  As long as all that stayed behind the scenes, it was hard for more moderate leaders and Democrats to get a political handle on.  All of that has changed, and even though the slap on the wrists received by Buttars was scant punishment, the blow to the socially ultra-conservative Republican caucus in the Utah senate will likely reverberate for some time.</p>
<blockquote><p>The moderate Governor of Utah wants to “move on” with business at the Legislature. The Buttars affair is over. &#8212;cowboy </p></blockquote>
<p>Right, of course.  Utah, like a lot of other states is wrestling with the current economic downturn.  Gov. Huntsman has already gone on record as favoring more recognition and protection for gay couples and gay people in general.  There is, at least at this time for the Governor, little to be gained by trying to make political hay out of the Buttars affair.</p>
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		<title>By: Stefano A</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/02/22/9057/comment-page-1#comment-34431</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefano A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=9057#comment-34431</guid>
		<description>Cowboy:

LOL Thanks for correcting &quot;they&#039;re&quot;-[their].

I hate making stupid mistakes like that.

And yes, I would like to have seen more condemnation of Buttars remarks and criticism of how it was handled coming out of the Republican National Convetion and Log Cabin Republicans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cowboy:</p>
<p>LOL Thanks for correcting &#8220;they&#8217;re&#8221;-[their].</p>
<p>I hate making stupid mistakes like that.</p>
<p>And yes, I would like to have seen more condemnation of Buttars remarks and criticism of how it was handled coming out of the Republican National Convetion and Log Cabin Republicans.</p>
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		<title>By: cowboy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/02/22/9057/comment-page-1#comment-34427</link>
		<dc:creator>cowboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=9057#comment-34427</guid>
		<description>[their] hatred... is baldfaced bigotry.   

The moderate Governor of Utah wants to &quot;move on&quot; with business at the Legislature.  The Buttars affair is over.  

There needs to be more condemnation of this kind of bigotry and it should come from outside the State of Utah...and it should come until more than just a &#039;hand  slap&#039; is meted as punishment for such bigotry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[their] hatred&#8230; is baldfaced bigotry.   </p>
<p>The moderate Governor of Utah wants to &#8220;move on&#8221; with business at the Legislature.  The Buttars affair is over.  </p>
<p>There needs to be more condemnation of this kind of bigotry and it should come from outside the State of Utah&#8230;and it should come until more than just a &#8216;hand  slap&#8217; is meted as punishment for such bigotry.</p>
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		<title>By: Stefano A</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/02/22/9057/comment-page-1#comment-34423</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefano A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=9057#comment-34423</guid>
		<description>Pender, that&#039;s the thing... they were not embarrassed by the bile. They were pissed off because they&#039;re hatred was brashly and pointedly expressed. Not the same thing as being embarrassed by the bile. The bile they still say they agree with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pender, that&#8217;s the thing&#8230; they were not embarrassed by the bile. They were pissed off because they&#8217;re hatred was brashly and pointedly expressed. Not the same thing as being embarrassed by the bile. The bile they still say they agree with.</p>
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		<title>By: Pender</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/02/22/9057/comment-page-1#comment-34414</link>
		<dc:creator>Pender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=9057#comment-34414</guid>
		<description>Yes, all true -- but still, it&#039;s a heartening change that the Utah legislature finds this kind of bile embarrassing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, all true &#8212; but still, it&#8217;s a heartening change that the Utah legislature finds this kind of bile embarrassing.</p>
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