This is unfortunate, but it does not affect Nicolosi’s conclusions in any significant way. Fisher and Greenberg certainly see the evidence as suggesting that children are more likely to become homosexual if they have poor relationships with their fathers, although they’re careful to stress that this does not necessarily happen for precisely the reasons that Freud thought it did.

Fisher and Greenberg do not say that if fathers have poor relationships with their homosexual sons, this is because the son’s gayness is making the father distant rather than the other way around; in fact they don’t even mention that idea. So there is no problem with Nicolosi using them as a source; their conclusions are similar to his.

http://www.ccfon.org/mediacentre.php?avid=197&avap=1

http://www.ccfon.org/mediacentre.php?avid=196&avap=1

If you want to show that somehow Nicolosi is misrepresenting Fisher and Greenberg, you’re welcome to try. What Nicolosi in fact does is to say that Fisher and Greenberg’s findings fit his theory – not that they themselves support it.

I didn’t understand what you were talking about because you expressed yourselves unclearly and in a way that didn’t seem altogether grammatical.

‘Until you can actually be bothered to read the source documents you pretend quote you are quoting from… you are talking from ignorance. It’s also a form of fraud, because you are being less than honest. We don’t like that. ‘

I beg your pardon? I didn’t claim to offer any quote from anything in any of my posts in this discussion. You’re welcome to dislike anything you want. I dislike being misrepresented (as well as ungrammatical and unclear comments).

‘Fisher and Greenberg (who were exploring Freud’s ideas, rather than homosexuality per se) are one of the prime sources behind the idea that having a gay son may cause a father to withdraw: an idea in complete contradiction to Nicolosi’s whimsy.’

There’s no difference between testing Freud’s ideas about homosexuality and exploring homosexuality. If what you are trying to claim is that Fisher and Greenberg argue that in all situations when homosexual sons are distant from their fathers, that this is because the father is withdrawing from his son due to his gayness, then you are mistaken.

I’ll look up Fisher and Greenberg again and prove as much. I don’t have the books immediately at hand, but can consult a library.

Your question about why I’m not heterosexual is foolish. You seem to be convinced that because no particular family type automatically causes homosexuality, that therefore people’s relationships with their parents cannot have any effect upon their children’s sexuality. This is a classic fallacy, and the reasons why it’s a fallacy are perfectly obvious. It is simply not valid, as a general rule, to suppose that because A does not always lead to B, that it can never lead to B under any circumstances.

Nicolosi might as well be selling magnetic pillows on late-night television. That’s how much ’science’ is involved.

That deserved to be repeated.

And the comparison is apt. As with the magnetic pillow hawkers, he has many testimonials like those who are convinced that magnets saved them from cancer or helped their arthritis or, perhaps, are turning them heterosexual.

Yes, indeed, and that is exactly what Nicolosi operates. He fails because there is no science to be found in anecdotes, and no science to back his anecdotes.

Nicolosi might as well be selling magnetic pillows on late-night television. That’s how much ’science’ is involved.

And thanks for the quote: Francis Bacon was a very intelligent man. For all that the Elizabethan age he lived in meant… he’s a personal mentor (well he cannot be, he’s dead; but you get what I mean).

If nothing else, he was both spiritual and ALSO a voice against superstition in an age when people got burned as witches. His philosophical commitment to the first graspings at the scientific method continue to have enormous influence to this day — we are all still influenced by his approach.

Apart from that, if nothing else, dear old Francis is proof enough that old gay men should never marry 14 year old girls… even if they feel they ‘have to’.

(Who did he think he was — a break-away Mormon in Nevada???)

Some things are not just, and gay men marrying women is but one of them.

The only truly funny thing that his wife was titled “Lady Bacon”.

Good Lord. Could life be so cruel — married to a gay man AND with a title only a twisted drag queen from Omaha in the early 1990’s could happily adopt???