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	<title>Comments on: Gibbs Ducks DOMA Question</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/19/11489/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/19/11489</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: ravenbiker</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/19/11489/comment-page-1#comment-42680</link>
		<dc:creator>ravenbiker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11489#comment-42680</guid>
		<description>On this issue and campaign promise, Mr. Obama is a coward and I hope all who voted for their selfdescribed Prophet will in the end recognize this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On this issue and campaign promise, Mr. Obama is a coward and I hope all who voted for their selfdescribed Prophet will in the end recognize this.</p>
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		<title>By: staci</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/19/11489/comment-page-1#comment-41091</link>
		<dc:creator>staci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 10:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11489#comment-41091</guid>
		<description>Maybe Hillary should have been elected president after all.  She is going to give equal rights to gay US diplomats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe Hillary should have been elected president after all.  She is going to give equal rights to gay US diplomats.</p>
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		<title>By: el polacko</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/19/11489/comment-page-1#comment-41079</link>
		<dc:creator>el polacko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 03:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11489#comment-41079</guid>
		<description>we&#039;re getting the same run-around from barack that we got from bill clinton:
huge promises and definitive statements during the campaign to win gay votes and dollars and then they get into office and it&#039;s gay who ? gay what ?
clinton actually took us backward, and obama is just &quot;too busy&quot; to worry about our civil rights, has to consider his popularity ratings, and i&#039;m sure they needed the space on their website for more important matters. it sickens me that gay people make excuses and are so willing to just wait and wait and wait for their equality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we&#8217;re getting the same run-around from barack that we got from bill clinton:<br />
huge promises and definitive statements during the campaign to win gay votes and dollars and then they get into office and it&#8217;s gay who ? gay what ?<br />
clinton actually took us backward, and obama is just &#8220;too busy&#8221; to worry about our civil rights, has to consider his popularity ratings, and i&#8217;m sure they needed the space on their website for more important matters. it sickens me that gay people make excuses and are so willing to just wait and wait and wait for their equality.</p>
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		<title>By: David C.</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/19/11489/comment-page-1#comment-40988</link>
		<dc:creator>David C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 02:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11489#comment-40988</guid>
		<description>As I indirectly pointed out up-thread, we&#039;re going to have an excellent opportunity to take the temperature of Obama&#039;s passion regarding DOMA very soon, sometime before or in the week of June 22nd.  

This is the deadline for the Department of Justice to respond to a suit filed by GLAD against Section 3 of DOMA.

Follow &lt;a href=&quot;http://domaflipflop.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this interesting link&lt;/a&gt; to learn more about this and perhaps engage in a little activism of your own. Here&#039;s a taste of what you will find there:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;Quick Summary:&lt;/b&gt; Presidents have the option [of] refusing to defend a law they view as unconstitutional on its face, of which there is no clearer example than DOMA (Defense Of Marriage Act).  President Obama himself has called the law “abhorrent” and he’s a constitutional law professor.  Given these premises, we feel that President Obama [should] refuse to defend DOMA and should instead instruct his Department of Justice to join GLAD in this historic lawsuit.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My principal reason for pointing this out is to encourage people to &lt;i&gt;watch what the Obama Administration actually does with this opportunity&lt;/i&gt; to move the gay civil rights agenda forward.  Will President Obama instruct the DOJ to challenge or defend DOMA?  

If readers feel it important to join &lt;i&gt;Operation DOMA Flip Flop&lt;/i&gt; and press for administration and DOJ action against DOMA, they should by all means do so.  Before deciding, keep in mind that those who support DOMA will be pressing the administration to defend the statute and there will be political consequences no matter what decision the President makes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I indirectly pointed out up-thread, we&#8217;re going to have an excellent opportunity to take the temperature of Obama&#8217;s passion regarding DOMA very soon, sometime before or in the week of June 22nd.  </p>
<p>This is the deadline for the Department of Justice to respond to a suit filed by GLAD against Section 3 of DOMA.</p>
<p>Follow <a href="http://domaflipflop.com/" rel="nofollow">this interesting link</a> to learn more about this and perhaps engage in a little activism of your own. Here&#8217;s a taste of what you will find there:</p>
<blockquote><p><b>Quick Summary:</b> Presidents have the option [of] refusing to defend a law they view as unconstitutional on its face, of which there is no clearer example than DOMA (Defense Of Marriage Act).  President Obama himself has called the law “abhorrent” and he’s a constitutional law professor.  Given these premises, we feel that President Obama [should] refuse to defend DOMA and should instead instruct his Department of Justice to join GLAD in this historic lawsuit.</p></blockquote>
<p>My principal reason for pointing this out is to encourage people to <i>watch what the Obama Administration actually does with this opportunity</i> to move the gay civil rights agenda forward.  Will President Obama instruct the DOJ to challenge or defend DOMA?  </p>
<p>If readers feel it important to join <i>Operation DOMA Flip Flop</i> and press for administration and DOJ action against DOMA, they should by all means do so.  Before deciding, keep in mind that those who support DOMA will be pressing the administration to defend the statute and there will be political consequences no matter what decision the President makes.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Lll</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/19/11489/comment-page-1#comment-40984</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Lll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 00:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11489#comment-40984</guid>
		<description>I think that David C is right on the money, both in terms of his analysis and the prescriptive measures he suggests. In some areas Obama&#039;s actions have pleased me, in other areas I&#039;m disappointed, but overall I try to keep the big picture in view, and what a huge, complicated mess he has to deal with. Not does he have to clean up after the seemingly endless screw-ups of his predecessor, he&#039;s trying to implement substantial changes in multiple areas, changes which in some cases are decades overdue. The Onion got it right with their post-election headline: &quot;Black Man Given Nation&#039;s Worst Job&quot;. 

This is only to put things in a larger perspective, not to let the President off the hook. After all, he did ask for this job. And there does appear to be a pattern of avoidance and tone-deafness regarding GLBT issues. That concerns me and it should be called out, loudly. One lesson I took away from watching conservatives fawn over Shrub over the past 8 years is that you do your cause no favors by becoming a sycophant. 

But the salient question is not &quot;What is he going to do about our issues?&quot;, but rather &quot;What are WE going to do about our issues?&quot;. I suggested on this board a few months ago that we should push for ENDA first, then follow up with DADT/DOMA. I still believe this is our best shot. Every poll I&#039;ve seen shows that employment anti-discrimination laws have overwhelming public support (this has been the case for quite some time now), they&#039;ve been in effect in many places for many years now (thus substantially negating the &quot;But who knows what will happen?!?&quot; line of argument), and a national anti-discrimination law could make a major difference for the millions of GLBT folks who don&#039;t live in a state or city where such protections currently exist. Plus, it puts our enemies in the unenviable position of arguing that it&#039;s OK to fire people because they&#039;re gay. Obviously, I want DADT and DOMA repealed as well, but IMHO both the military and marriage come with cultural baggage which make them more difficult and more complicated.

As David points out, ENDA has to come through Congress and that&#039;s where the bulk of our can be most effectively focused -- on getting it brought to the table, passed, and sent to Obama for his signature. The best way to prevent him from avoiding our issues is to make them unavoidable</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that David C is right on the money, both in terms of his analysis and the prescriptive measures he suggests. In some areas Obama&#8217;s actions have pleased me, in other areas I&#8217;m disappointed, but overall I try to keep the big picture in view, and what a huge, complicated mess he has to deal with. Not does he have to clean up after the seemingly endless screw-ups of his predecessor, he&#8217;s trying to implement substantial changes in multiple areas, changes which in some cases are decades overdue. The Onion got it right with their post-election headline: &#8220;Black Man Given Nation&#8217;s Worst Job&#8221;. </p>
<p>This is only to put things in a larger perspective, not to let the President off the hook. After all, he did ask for this job. And there does appear to be a pattern of avoidance and tone-deafness regarding GLBT issues. That concerns me and it should be called out, loudly. One lesson I took away from watching conservatives fawn over Shrub over the past 8 years is that you do your cause no favors by becoming a sycophant. </p>
<p>But the salient question is not &#8220;What is he going to do about our issues?&#8221;, but rather &#8220;What are WE going to do about our issues?&#8221;. I suggested on this board a few months ago that we should push for ENDA first, then follow up with DADT/DOMA. I still believe this is our best shot. Every poll I&#8217;ve seen shows that employment anti-discrimination laws have overwhelming public support (this has been the case for quite some time now), they&#8217;ve been in effect in many places for many years now (thus substantially negating the &#8220;But who knows what will happen?!?&#8221; line of argument), and a national anti-discrimination law could make a major difference for the millions of GLBT folks who don&#8217;t live in a state or city where such protections currently exist. Plus, it puts our enemies in the unenviable position of arguing that it&#8217;s OK to fire people because they&#8217;re gay. Obviously, I want DADT and DOMA repealed as well, but IMHO both the military and marriage come with cultural baggage which make them more difficult and more complicated.</p>
<p>As David points out, ENDA has to come through Congress and that&#8217;s where the bulk of our can be most effectively focused &#8212; on getting it brought to the table, passed, and sent to Obama for his signature. The best way to prevent him from avoiding our issues is to make them unavoidable</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Burroway</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/19/11489/comment-page-1#comment-40974</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Burroway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 20:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11489#comment-40974</guid>
		<description>Oh for crying out loud! This is like breaking up a fight on a playground.

If you want to toss in some food for thought -- pro or con -- then go right ahead. If you want to tear Obama a new one (not each other) because of his administration&#039;s moves or lack thereof, or if you want to defend or explain why you think he&#039;s doing the right thing, that&#039;s fine too.

But this business of hurling insults at each other ends now. You two are taking a timeout on moderation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh for crying out loud! This is like breaking up a fight on a playground.</p>
<p>If you want to toss in some food for thought &#8212; pro or con &#8212; then go right ahead. If you want to tear Obama a new one (not each other) because of his administration&#8217;s moves or lack thereof, or if you want to defend or explain why you think he&#8217;s doing the right thing, that&#8217;s fine too.</p>
<p>But this business of hurling insults at each other ends now. You two are taking a timeout on moderation.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/19/11489/comment-page-1#comment-40973</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 20:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11489#comment-40973</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And I might add that Hypocrite originally spelled out the word “fa**ots” in its entirety, it was edited on his behalf to make him look a little less hostile and like spittle was dripping from his mouth.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Nope.

It was edited so as to continue to avoid site filters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And I might add that Hypocrite originally spelled out the word “fa**ots” in its entirety, it was edited on his behalf to make him look a little less hostile and like spittle was dripping from his mouth.</p></blockquote>
<p>Nope.</p>
<p>It was edited so as to continue to avoid site filters.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/19/11489/comment-page-1#comment-40972</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 20:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11489#comment-40972</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve already seen it, but you&#039;re willfully blind to it because you can&#039;t stand the truth - Obama&#039;s better for LGBTs than Bush was.  He opposed the Federal Anti-marriage amendment, while Bush supported it. He signed the U.N. resolution calling for an end to the criminilization of gayness while Bush refused to do so. He opposed Prop 8 in California while Bush supported it.  He&#039;s urged the passing of the Matthew Shepard Act while Bush promised to veto it.  I&#039;ve pointed these out to you before yet you continue to lie and say there&#039;s no difference between the two.  Shame on you, Hypocrite.

And as to your &quot;rhetorical device&quot; - what a pathetic excuse for being outrageously offensive.  You disgust me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve already seen it, but you&#8217;re willfully blind to it because you can&#8217;t stand the truth &#8211; Obama&#8217;s better for LGBTs than Bush was.  He opposed the Federal Anti-marriage amendment, while Bush supported it. He signed the U.N. resolution calling for an end to the criminilization of gayness while Bush refused to do so. He opposed Prop 8 in California while Bush supported it.  He&#8217;s urged the passing of the Matthew Shepard Act while Bush promised to veto it.  I&#8217;ve pointed these out to you before yet you continue to lie and say there&#8217;s no difference between the two.  Shame on you, Hypocrite.</p>
<p>And as to your &#8220;rhetorical device&#8221; &#8211; what a pathetic excuse for being outrageously offensive.  You disgust me.</p>
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		<title>By: Anti-hypocrite</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/19/11489/comment-page-1#comment-40969</link>
		<dc:creator>Anti-hypocrite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 20:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11489#comment-40969</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll say Obama is better for the gays than Bush when there&#039;s anything to warrant it besides blind faith and partisan hackery. Thus far, there&#039;s not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll say Obama is better for the gays than Bush when there&#8217;s anything to warrant it besides blind faith and partisan hackery. Thus far, there&#8217;s not.</p>
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		<title>By: Anti-hypocrite</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/19/11489/comment-page-1#comment-40968</link>
		<dc:creator>Anti-hypocrite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 20:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11489#comment-40968</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a rhetorical device, you tedious woman - overstatement to make a point. I trust the well-read among us recognized that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a rhetorical device, you tedious woman &#8211; overstatement to make a point. I trust the well-read among us recognized that.</p>
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