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	<title>Comments on: Claiming the Antichrist Will be Gay can Make You Look Like an Idiot</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/30/11759/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/30/11759</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/30/11759/comment-page-1#comment-41946</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 03:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11759#comment-41946</guid>
		<description>Oh wow.

Nicolae Car-GAY-thia!

So exciting, he, the Disco Antichrist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh wow.</p>
<p>Nicolae Car-GAY-thia!</p>
<p>So exciting, he, the Disco Antichrist.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/30/11759/comment-page-1#comment-41802</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11759#comment-41802</guid>
		<description>&quot;and I think it would be better for everyone if he were helped to lose it (through regular doses of critical thinking and evidence based reasoning).&quot;

If you think that would work, I have a large orange bridge spanning the Golden Gate you might want to buy.

tom robbins tells a story in one of my favorite books, Another roadside attraction, his first and by far best. A guy invents a religion, gets disciples and converts, has a huge mass rally and tells his multitude of followers that he made the whole thing up. (Telephone call for Ron Hubbard!)

They kill him and go on believing it anyway. This kind of religion is not amenable to reason, because it involves, like all good fiction, the willng suspension of disbelief. If he were interested in reason, or consistency, or logic, he would have gone that way a long time ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;and I think it would be better for everyone if he were helped to lose it (through regular doses of critical thinking and evidence based reasoning).&#8221;</p>
<p>If you think that would work, I have a large orange bridge spanning the Golden Gate you might want to buy.</p>
<p>tom robbins tells a story in one of my favorite books, Another roadside attraction, his first and by far best. A guy invents a religion, gets disciples and converts, has a huge mass rally and tells his multitude of followers that he made the whole thing up. (Telephone call for Ron Hubbard!)</p>
<p>They kill him and go on believing it anyway. This kind of religion is not amenable to reason, because it involves, like all good fiction, the willng suspension of disbelief. If he were interested in reason, or consistency, or logic, he would have gone that way a long time ago.</p>
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		<title>By: AdrianT</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/30/11759/comment-page-1#comment-41798</link>
		<dc:creator>AdrianT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11759#comment-41798</guid>
		<description>Of course, 150 years ago, Charles Darwin answered all the questions that the biblical authors had about their origins, their true place in nature, more plausibly, coherently and parsimoniously. Thee should be no need to worry about what &#039;Daniel&#039; reportedly said about such things.

The most entertaining way to make an idiot of this ludicrous Alaskan preacher, as with any fundamentalist, is to ask him how old he believes the earth to be. Does he think Dinosaurs and man existed at the same time, like Sarah Palin does? (the religious right pumps huge amounts of money into cheap PR campaigns aimed at pretending we did not evolve). 

What fundamentalists believe will happen, though concerns me even more. Why is it that these people gleefully look forward to destruction? They just cannot wait for this life to end. The problem is, in Iran, on the verge of going nuclear, its president is also waiting for the second coming, not of Jesus Christ, but of the 12th Imam. 

Apocalyptic weaponry + non compatible messianic prophecy = end of civilization. 

My guess, is that religion can be a bit like alcohol consumption. The vast majority of moderate religious people get great comfort and joy from their faith, just like most drinkers can savour the occasional glass of wine. Some people cannot control their alcohol intake and cause much misery to others. Hamman&#039;s faith is exactly like that, rabidly out of control - and I think it would be better for everyone if he were helped to lose it (through regular doses of critical thinking and evidence based reasoning).

The best advice for Hamman to take is the words of St Paul in his letter to the Corinthians (King James if needs must):

&quot;When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.&quot;

Put away the legends of Genesis and Revelation, and pick up any book by Carl Sagan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, 150 years ago, Charles Darwin answered all the questions that the biblical authors had about their origins, their true place in nature, more plausibly, coherently and parsimoniously. Thee should be no need to worry about what &#8216;Daniel&#8217; reportedly said about such things.</p>
<p>The most entertaining way to make an idiot of this ludicrous Alaskan preacher, as with any fundamentalist, is to ask him how old he believes the earth to be. Does he think Dinosaurs and man existed at the same time, like Sarah Palin does? (the religious right pumps huge amounts of money into cheap PR campaigns aimed at pretending we did not evolve). </p>
<p>What fundamentalists believe will happen, though concerns me even more. Why is it that these people gleefully look forward to destruction? They just cannot wait for this life to end. The problem is, in Iran, on the verge of going nuclear, its president is also waiting for the second coming, not of Jesus Christ, but of the 12th Imam. </p>
<p>Apocalyptic weaponry + non compatible messianic prophecy = end of civilization. </p>
<p>My guess, is that religion can be a bit like alcohol consumption. The vast majority of moderate religious people get great comfort and joy from their faith, just like most drinkers can savour the occasional glass of wine. Some people cannot control their alcohol intake and cause much misery to others. Hamman&#8217;s faith is exactly like that, rabidly out of control &#8211; and I think it would be better for everyone if he were helped to lose it (through regular doses of critical thinking and evidence based reasoning).</p>
<p>The best advice for Hamman to take is the words of St Paul in his letter to the Corinthians (King James if needs must):</p>
<p>&#8220;When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.&#8221;</p>
<p>Put away the legends of Genesis and Revelation, and pick up any book by Carl Sagan.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/30/11759/comment-page-1#comment-41737</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 23:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11759#comment-41737</guid>
		<description>It seems like these Heterosexual, so called Christian men are obsessed with sodomy and man on man sex. I hear more about gay sex from them then any other source.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems like these Heterosexual, so called Christian men are obsessed with sodomy and man on man sex. I hear more about gay sex from them then any other source.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/30/11759/comment-page-1#comment-41715</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 15:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11759#comment-41715</guid>
		<description>sorry for the typing errors. Dyslexics of the world-- UNTIE!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry for the typing errors. Dyslexics of the world&#8211; UNTIE!</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/30/11759/comment-page-1#comment-41714</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 15:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11759#comment-41714</guid>
		<description>Believing in the anti-christ makes you look like an idiot, not just claiming that he is gay. The Christians of the early times clearly expected JC to come back any minute, hwich he has fialed to do for nearly 2000 years.

Also a small note-- yet another reference to the existence of other gods, not just the jewish one. &quot;Thou shalt have no other god before me.&quot; A clear indicator that Yawveh himself was aware the he was not the only one. Not idols, not &quot;false&quot; god-- don&#039;t even go there-- but &quot;other&quot; gods.

Clearly the ancient Hebrews believed there were other gods, also supported by vairous gnostic beliefs.

Hmmmm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Believing in the anti-christ makes you look like an idiot, not just claiming that he is gay. The Christians of the early times clearly expected JC to come back any minute, hwich he has fialed to do for nearly 2000 years.</p>
<p>Also a small note&#8211; yet another reference to the existence of other gods, not just the jewish one. &#8220;Thou shalt have no other god before me.&#8221; A clear indicator that Yawveh himself was aware the he was not the only one. Not idols, not &#8220;false&#8221; god&#8211; don&#8217;t even go there&#8211; but &#8220;other&#8221; gods.</p>
<p>Clearly the ancient Hebrews believed there were other gods, also supported by vairous gnostic beliefs.</p>
<p>Hmmmm.</p>
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		<title>By: Göran Koch-Swahne</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/30/11759/comment-page-1#comment-41707</link>
		<dc:creator>Göran Koch-Swahne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 13:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11759#comment-41707</guid>
		<description>The NIV says “or for the one desired by women”. The old 1917 Swedish State translation does the same, whereas both the Septuagint, the ancient Greek translation from Alexandria a couple of decades later than the Book of Daniel itself (165 BC), and the King James translation omit the “for” necessary in both contemporary English and Swedish: kaì epithumía gunaikwn and “the desire of women”, respectively. So it is not that the King (of Syria as it is) does not desire women, it’t that he has not regard for the lascivious God (Baal or Adonis) desired by women… Illiterate pastor for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The NIV says “or for the one desired by women”. The old 1917 Swedish State translation does the same, whereas both the Septuagint, the ancient Greek translation from Alexandria a couple of decades later than the Book of Daniel itself (165 BC), and the King James translation omit the “for” necessary in both contemporary English and Swedish: kaì epithumía gunaikwn and “the desire of women”, respectively. So it is not that the King (of Syria as it is) does not desire women, it’t that he has not regard for the lascivious God (Baal or Adonis) desired by women… Illiterate pastor for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/30/11759/comment-page-1#comment-41700</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 04:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11759#comment-41700</guid>
		<description>&quot;...basing his entire claim on a misreading of a single verse taken out of context.&quot;

Seems to be par for the course for anti-gay right wing Christian preachers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;basing his entire claim on a misreading of a single verse taken out of context.&#8221;</p>
<p>Seems to be par for the course for anti-gay right wing Christian preachers.</p>
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		<title>By: The Lauderdale</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/30/11759/comment-page-1#comment-41698</link>
		<dc:creator>The Lauderdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 01:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11759#comment-41698</guid>
		<description>Hadn&#039;t gone two paragraphs in before I was smacking up against a brick wall.

A) Hamman could have found the first usage of the word &quot;homosexuality&quot; pretty easily, had he bothered.  

2) &quot;Historical revisionism?&quot;  Of what?  &quot;Sodomy&quot; and &quot;homosexuality are different words meaning different things.  (And sodomy, of course, has multiple different meanings.)  And the only times the word &quot;homosexual &quot; or its derivatives appear biblically are in editions by anti-gay Christian translation teams.  Is that what he’s talking about when he uses the phrase “historical revisionism”?  If so then I tend to agree with him, but I don&#039;t think that&#039;s what he was shooting for there.

Never mind the ugliness of Hamman’s thesis: I&#039;m honestly more offended by the poor formulation of the arguments supporting it.  Poor guy’s all over the place.   He should at least run his screeds past a good writing center tutor before he puts them online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hadn&#8217;t gone two paragraphs in before I was smacking up against a brick wall.</p>
<p>A) Hamman could have found the first usage of the word &#8220;homosexuality&#8221; pretty easily, had he bothered.  </p>
<p>2) &#8220;Historical revisionism?&#8221;  Of what?  &#8220;Sodomy&#8221; and &#8220;homosexuality are different words meaning different things.  (And sodomy, of course, has multiple different meanings.)  And the only times the word &#8220;homosexual &#8221; or its derivatives appear biblically are in editions by anti-gay Christian translation teams.  Is that what he’s talking about when he uses the phrase “historical revisionism”?  If so then I tend to agree with him, but I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s what he was shooting for there.</p>
<p>Never mind the ugliness of Hamman’s thesis: I&#8217;m honestly more offended by the poor formulation of the arguments supporting it.  Poor guy’s all over the place.   He should at least run his screeds past a good writing center tutor before he puts them online.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard W. Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/05/30/11759/comment-page-1#comment-41697</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard W. Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 01:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=11759#comment-41697</guid>
		<description>Be sure to follow the link to the Frontiersmen article.  Either this paper has a wide circulation or the folks in Alaska are not all as naive as Palin.  By a very random count, I am guessing that the split was 5 to 1 that this minister hasn&#039;t the foggiest idea what he is talking about.  Most of the reader comments show a better understanding than the &quot;Rev&#039;s&quot;.  Anyway, it might provide some entertainment for late Sat. or laidback Sun AM reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be sure to follow the link to the Frontiersmen article.  Either this paper has a wide circulation or the folks in Alaska are not all as naive as Palin.  By a very random count, I am guessing that the split was 5 to 1 that this minister hasn&#8217;t the foggiest idea what he is talking about.  Most of the reader comments show a better understanding than the &#8220;Rev&#8217;s&#8221;.  Anyway, it might provide some entertainment for late Sat. or laidback Sun AM reading.</p>
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