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	<title>Comments on: Barney Frank Was Against The DOMA Brief Before He Was For It</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/18/12269</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Scott P.</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/18/12269/comment-page-1#comment-43045</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 03:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=12269#comment-43045</guid>
		<description>I used to really like Barney Frank. His wit, his willingness to give as good as he got, most of the time even better, but now... now it&#039;s time for him to go, he&#039;s let the office go to his head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to really like Barney Frank. His wit, his willingness to give as good as he got, most of the time even better, but now&#8230; now it&#8217;s time for him to go, he&#8217;s let the office go to his head.</p>
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		<title>By: gary</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/18/12269/comment-page-1#comment-43040</link>
		<dc:creator>gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 23:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=12269#comment-43040</guid>
		<description>kinda greasy, huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kinda greasy, huh?</p>
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		<title>By: cd</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/18/12269/comment-page-1#comment-42932</link>
		<dc:creator>cd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 01:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=12269#comment-42932</guid>
		<description>First of all, I have followed GLAD for a couple of years.  They are as good as it gets.  They don&#039;t file lawsuits unless they are very sure they can win and the courts can&#039;t dismiss them without great public embarrassment.  I&#039;d put money on the Gill lawsuit succeeding.

The defense brief in the Smelt lawsuit is all the currently even slightly viable anti-marriage assertions packed into one document.  Admittedly, there&#039;s a chance the courts will endorse all or most of those assertions in an opinion to uphold DOMA.  But there&#039;s also a good chance the succession of judges will shred most of them, perhaps all of them, along the way.  That will do what all the many different state court verdicts haven&#039;t really, which is winnow down the arguments the antimarriage side can offer for the record.  It could kill off the stupid procreation and childraising canards as arguments in the public arena.

Barney Frank represents a nearby House district and is the most visible member of our House delegation.  (My Rep, Ed Markey, is busy setting himself up for the Senate seat held by Ted Kennedy.)  I think Barney just doesn&#039;t care about things at that level, i.e implicit insult.  He cares about outcomes and in your face kinds of insult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, I have followed GLAD for a couple of years.  They are as good as it gets.  They don&#8217;t file lawsuits unless they are very sure they can win and the courts can&#8217;t dismiss them without great public embarrassment.  I&#8217;d put money on the Gill lawsuit succeeding.</p>
<p>The defense brief in the Smelt lawsuit is all the currently even slightly viable anti-marriage assertions packed into one document.  Admittedly, there&#8217;s a chance the courts will endorse all or most of those assertions in an opinion to uphold DOMA.  But there&#8217;s also a good chance the succession of judges will shred most of them, perhaps all of them, along the way.  That will do what all the many different state court verdicts haven&#8217;t really, which is winnow down the arguments the antimarriage side can offer for the record.  It could kill off the stupid procreation and childraising canards as arguments in the public arena.</p>
<p>Barney Frank represents a nearby House district and is the most visible member of our House delegation.  (My Rep, Ed Markey, is busy setting himself up for the Senate seat held by Ted Kennedy.)  I think Barney just doesn&#8217;t care about things at that level, i.e implicit insult.  He cares about outcomes and in your face kinds of insult.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Kraemer</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/18/12269/comment-page-1#comment-42919</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Kraemer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 22:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=12269#comment-42919</guid>
		<description>I just read the original page by &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.house.gov/frank/pressreleases/2009/06-17-09-doma.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;U.S. Congressman Barney Frank, &quot;PRESS RELEASE: Congressman Frank Corrects Media Reports on his Response to DOMA Brief,&quot; U.S. House.gov Jun. 17, 2009&lt;/A&gt; and I was shocked to read that Congressman Barney Frank thinks the DOMA case is one that is being rightfully decided on a “rational basis.” It shows that Barney Frank doesn’t understand the U.S. Supreme Court’s legal decisions on minority rights over the last 50 years.

Gays should be treated legally as a “suspect class” deserving of a “higher scrutiny” by the court just like they do in cases involving the rights of black people or religious people. Anything less suggests that being gay is a choice like deciding to get a fishing license.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read the original page by <a href="http://www.house.gov/frank/pressreleases/2009/06-17-09-doma.html" rel="nofollow">U.S. Congressman Barney Frank, &#8220;PRESS RELEASE: Congressman Frank Corrects Media Reports on his Response to DOMA Brief,&#8221; U.S. House.gov Jun. 17, 2009</a> and I was shocked to read that Congressman Barney Frank thinks the DOMA case is one that is being rightfully decided on a “rational basis.” It shows that Barney Frank doesn’t understand the U.S. Supreme Court’s legal decisions on minority rights over the last 50 years.</p>
<p>Gays should be treated legally as a “suspect class” deserving of a “higher scrutiny” by the court just like they do in cases involving the rights of black people or religious people. Anything less suggests that being gay is a choice like deciding to get a fishing license.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/18/12269/comment-page-1#comment-42910</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=12269#comment-42910</guid>
		<description>Those who are convinced that the Feds were required to defend the law as it stood may wish to consider California&#039;s defense of the constitutionality of Proposition 8.  Rather than the State defending the law, it appeals to the Court to tell it whether or not the law is Constitutional.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-gay-marriage18-2009jun18,0,2506403.story&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;LA Times&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;In declining to take sides in the suit, Schwarzenegger said the case &quot;presents important constitutional questions that require and warrant judicial determination.&quot;

&quot;In a constitutional democracy, it is the role of the courts to determine and resolve such questions. . . . ,&quot; the governor said late Tuesday in his legal reply to the suit. &quot;The Administration encourages the Court to resolve the merits of this action expeditiously.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those who are convinced that the Feds were required to defend the law as it stood may wish to consider California&#8217;s defense of the constitutionality of Proposition 8.  Rather than the State defending the law, it appeals to the Court to tell it whether or not the law is Constitutional.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-gay-marriage18-2009jun18,0,2506403.story" rel="nofollow">LA Times</a></p>
<blockquote><p>In declining to take sides in the suit, Schwarzenegger said the case &#8220;presents important constitutional questions that require and warrant judicial determination.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;In a constitutional democracy, it is the role of the courts to determine and resolve such questions. . . . ,&#8221; the governor said late Tuesday in his legal reply to the suit. &#8220;The Administration encourages the Court to resolve the merits of this action expeditiously.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jim Burroway</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/18/12269/comment-page-1#comment-42908</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Burroway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=12269#comment-42908</guid>
		<description>Rossi, 

To be clear, I specifically disavowed any notion that the DOJ brief compared homosexuality to incest or sex with children, as other bloggers were reporting when the DOJ came out. I made that very clear in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/12/12023&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;very first post that I wrote&lt;/a&gt; on this subject. I got a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/12/12023#comment-42545&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bit of flack for it from one powerful blogger&lt;/a&gt; but &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/12/12078&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I did not back down&lt;/a&gt;. I stand by that assertion. On that one single point, I guess you could say that Barney Frank and I agree.

But legal experts are divided over whether the Obama administration was compelled to defend DOMA. And those who say the DOJ was required to defend DOM are divided further over to what extent that defense should take.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rossi, </p>
<p>To be clear, I specifically disavowed any notion that the DOJ brief compared homosexuality to incest or sex with children, as other bloggers were reporting when the DOJ came out. I made that very clear in the <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/12/12023" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">very first post that I wrote</a> on this subject. I got a <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/12/12023#comment-42545" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">bit of flack for it from one powerful blogger</a> but <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/12/12078" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">I did not back down</a>. I stand by that assertion. On that one single point, I guess you could say that Barney Frank and I agree.</p>
<p>But legal experts are divided over whether the Obama administration was compelled to defend DOMA. And those who say the DOJ was required to defend DOM are divided further over to what extent that defense should take.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/18/12269/comment-page-1#comment-42906</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=12269#comment-42906</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I just don’t think that bad info needs to continually be bandied about by this blog.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Rossi,

That&#039;s a very stong accusation.  We do not &#039; continually bandy about&#039; bad information at this site.  

If you think that our opinion or reasoning is faulty, you are welcome to present your opposing viewpoint.  However, if you think that our information or facts are incorrect, please be prepared to provide evidence to the contrary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I just don’t think that bad info needs to continually be bandied about by this blog.</p></blockquote>
<p>Rossi,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a very stong accusation.  We do not &#8216; continually bandy about&#8217; bad information at this site.  </p>
<p>If you think that our opinion or reasoning is faulty, you are welcome to present your opposing viewpoint.  However, if you think that our information or facts are incorrect, please be prepared to provide evidence to the contrary.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/18/12269/comment-page-1#comment-42905</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=12269#comment-42905</guid>
		<description>Barney Frank has &lt;b&gt;always&lt;/b&gt; placed Democratic Party interests far far &lt;b&gt;FAR&lt;/b&gt; higher than the interests of the gay community.

In 1990 John Silber ran for governor of Massachusetts against William Weld.

Silber was a homophobe who, as president of Boston College, had refused to let the college&#039;s non-discrimination clause include sexual orientation - comparing homosexuality to bestiality and pedophilia.  He ordered that a B.U.-affiliated high school academy disband its gay-straight alliance.  In 1992, he told Newsday &quot;Decent parents don&#039;t even discuss [with their children] the possibility that there are homosexuals.&quot;

While much of this occured after 1990, his reputation as an anti-gay activist was well established at that point.  The MA gay community was horrified when Silber got the Democratic Party nomination.

In contrast, William Weld was very liberal in his approach to gay citizens.  He appointed dozens of gay people to his administration and fought for a gay-inclusive Republican Party.  After marriage equality came to MA, he officiated at the marriage of his former Chief of Staff.

Again, many specifics occured after the election, but there was no confusion about which was the pro-gay candidate and which was the raging homophobe.

Barney Frank endorsed John Silber, the Democrat.  Party affiliation was FAR more important to Frank than gay rights.  I have never trusted him since.

I see this as nothing more than a continuation of Frank&#039;s priorities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barney Frank has <b>always</b> placed Democratic Party interests far far <b>FAR</b> higher than the interests of the gay community.</p>
<p>In 1990 John Silber ran for governor of Massachusetts against William Weld.</p>
<p>Silber was a homophobe who, as president of Boston College, had refused to let the college&#8217;s non-discrimination clause include sexual orientation &#8211; comparing homosexuality to bestiality and pedophilia.  He ordered that a B.U.-affiliated high school academy disband its gay-straight alliance.  In 1992, he told Newsday &#8220;Decent parents don&#8217;t even discuss [with their children] the possibility that there are homosexuals.&#8221;</p>
<p>While much of this occured after 1990, his reputation as an anti-gay activist was well established at that point.  The MA gay community was horrified when Silber got the Democratic Party nomination.</p>
<p>In contrast, William Weld was very liberal in his approach to gay citizens.  He appointed dozens of gay people to his administration and fought for a gay-inclusive Republican Party.  After marriage equality came to MA, he officiated at the marriage of his former Chief of Staff.</p>
<p>Again, many specifics occured after the election, but there was no confusion about which was the pro-gay candidate and which was the raging homophobe.</p>
<p>Barney Frank endorsed John Silber, the Democrat.  Party affiliation was FAR more important to Frank than gay rights.  I have never trusted him since.</p>
<p>I see this as nothing more than a continuation of Frank&#8217;s priorities.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruno</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/18/12269/comment-page-1#comment-42904</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=12269#comment-42904</guid>
		<description>In my last comment, I meant to say &quot;as *he&#039;s* a lawyer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my last comment, I meant to say &#8220;as *he&#8217;s* a lawyer.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruno</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/18/12269/comment-page-1#comment-42903</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=12269#comment-42903</guid>
		<description>@Rossi: It was Barney Frank who supposedly didn&#039;t read the brief before making his initial statement...many others besides Aravosis and BTB folks have read it and come to their own conclusions.  But as he&#039;s a lawyer, I find it very hard to believe his story.  It&#039;s far more likely Obama promised him some goodies last evening, which may or may not have anything to do with us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rossi: It was Barney Frank who supposedly didn&#8217;t read the brief before making his initial statement&#8230;many others besides Aravosis and BTB folks have read it and come to their own conclusions.  But as he&#8217;s a lawyer, I find it very hard to believe his story.  It&#8217;s far more likely Obama promised him some goodies last evening, which may or may not have anything to do with us.</p>
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