Who rapes who more often in the case of a straight and gay pair of men?

Straight guys rape the gay men more often. That’s a fact. We’re more scared in the shower than you, and yet we deal with it.

Gay men are so oversexed, so promiscuous, so uncontrollable, predatory and deviant, that we will force our unwanted attentions on those poor straight boys, regardless of the consequences.

We are just so other, so different, so unlike normal folks, outside the bounds of normal behaviors and expectations, with no possible connections to the normal world, lacking in all the simple social controls and basic good manners that such normal folks take as, well, normal…. (take a breath!)

and most importantly, so dangerous…

that we MUST be kept out.

Well, actually, we don’t have to be kept out. It’s fine if we’re there. just don’t let the straight boys know, because it scares them. Because we’re not just like them. Unless you’re thinking like Quo– the policy is too tolerant, and you have to keep all gays out, even though that is impossible UNLESS THEY TELL YOU!!!! Which is the whole point of DADT!!! Because there is no test, no smoking limp wrist, to tell you. And in fact, as penile plthymywhatchamacallits show, the more anti-gay you are, the harder it makes your dick.

This kind of silly thinking makes my head hurt.

Those of us in the reality based community have one simple question, the very posing of which demolishes the stupidity of the argument, which several others have already pointed out: viz,

What in hell do those people think we have been doing all of these years, decades, and centuries…

SENDING OURSELVES OUT WITH THE LAUNDRY FOR DRY-CLEANING?

The whole thing is an obfuscation, because the subtext is the only “truth” in the Great Shower Controversy. It is the Great Fear and the Great Hate at the heart of it all. Gay people are already in the military, taking showers with their buddies and buddettes, AND THE KNOW HOW TO BEHAVE THEMSELVES. Not to mention, those of us in the reality-based community also know that straight boys and straight girls check out other people in the showers to compare various endowments. It’s normal and natural. I even check out the women when I go to mixed sex places, and I haven’t got the slightest interest in them. But I’m smart enough not to stare, or make someone uncomfortable. Same as I would do if I were looking at cute human boys. Because I’m a sensitive and caring human being, not some right winger’s worst fears.

So, Quo and Richard. You really need to acknowledge the subtext here, though I’m sure your point of view prevents you from even thinking that one is there. Because this is the only true thing, however unacknowledged, in all that you have said. Especially, Richard, is is not this pick-and-choose thing that you think we do, especially at this site. It is just your prejudice against gay people speaking, not some reality that you could put forth about gay people in defiance to our lies and propagandizing. You’ve already made your decisions about gay people, and they are not relevant to anything like reality. Your fundamental belief, for whatever reason you may have– and I couldn’t begin to guess why– is that GAY-IS-BAD-DANGEROUS-EVIL-SCARY and whatever else you got going. After that point, you are just making it up. It is what the bigots and the haters have done forever, whether the object is black people, Jews, gays, Muslims, women, or anyone else.

Of COURSE you don’t see it as prejudice. It’s just what you think. The problem is that you believe everything you think. And you really shouldn’t. Reality is a great antidote. You can change. Really you can. But you must WANT to change.

Stanley Kurtz is another great example of this kind of mindset. I can’t decide whether he is evil or stupid. PT Barnum must have been thinking of him, or possibly any representative of Exodus, when he said “There’s a sucker born every minute.” No, actually, PT would have said “What a shoddy defense of flim-flam!”

Kurtz’s so called thesis is flim-flam, not science. It’s not statistics. It’s not even sociology. It is a political hit piece, and nothing else. At least two studies that I know have have debunked what he had to say using his own data, just not the doctored variety of it. And of course, I am unaware of any serious research, apart from Paul Cameron and Tony Perkins, that supports this nonsense. And of course, again, those of us in the reality based community, as opposed to Stanley’s fevered version of reality, have a two step question, the posing of which demolishes his argument:

1) Gay people are already living together as if they were legally married, and have been for decades, if not centuries. Why would the legal recognition of this reality suddenly lead to the disintegration of the marriage and the hetero family unit? (Answer: because Stanley already believes that the connection is there, so it was fairly easy to find. You just snip this end of the data off, and then that end, and the middle part supports your belief system. If you squint properly).

2) If this were actually the case, and gay marriage is so detrimental to the health of the hetero family, then WHY ON EARTH HAVE THE GOVERNMENTS OF SWEDEN AND NORWAY LEGALIZED SAME SEX MARRIAGE? Of course, only Stanley knows the truth, unless those uber-powerful homos are actually running the political structures of 8 countries in the world. And the press. And the churches. and the voters. And the minds of all decent, fair-minded, caring human beings who can recognize bigotry for what it is.

Shhhhhhhhh. Don’t tell anyone. They’ll get you.

Nonsense. Nonsense. And more nonsense.

As to the idea that if we allow gays to shower with straight men that we have no reason to allow women to be free from showering with straight men, that does not follow. If, for the sake of argument, we accept that its a bad thing for someone to have to shower with someone who may be sexually attracted to them, it minimizes the occurrences of this to seperate men and women because this means that in the vast majority of cases the people in showers are not attracted to each other whereas if men and women shower together in the vast majority of cases there is a potential attraction. There is no perfect solution so the one that is best is to divide showers and other facilities by gender as we have always done.

If this supposed concern over showering were serious (and its not) the bigots would be proposing seperate shower facilites for men, women, gays, and lesbians. They never propose that because this is raised as an excuse reject gay equality, there is no sincere desire to keep straight men from being eyed by gay men, they want this to be a problem to rationalize their call for inequality.

The reason has nothing to do with orientation or “gazing” and everything to do with body parts. Men and women shower separately because they always have. In the US, anyway.

We raise our children not to see the other sex naked from a very young age. They use separate bathrooms in kindergarten, shower separately in camp, have different showers in PE. And eventually end up in the military. Where, because of a lifetime of conditioning, they expect to shower in separate facilities.

Some cultures aren’t as restrictive about seeing the other sex naked. So, for them, showering together isn’t a culture shock.

But there is no “don’t let a gay guy see me” culture. Every red-blooded hetero knows that there are gay guys at his gym. And most just couldn’t care less who sees him in the shower.

And really, if you get all weird about a gay guy showering near you, then wait until he’s done. It’s not like the entire platoon will fit in the shower at the same time anyway. At least if you know who he is, you can make sure that your sensitive and frightened body doesn’t fall under his “gaze”.

Please. It is absurd on the face of it, is absurd when analyzed logically, and most important, it is absurd when analyzed factually. In fact, an analysis of his so-called thesis was done on these very pages, showing his thesis was completely cherry picked, or as we like to call it, fabricated.

It’s one more example of striaght people behaving badly and blaming gay people for it.