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	<title>Comments on: Anti-Prop 8 Legal Team to Pro-Gay Groups: Back Off</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/08/13074/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/08/13074</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: The Letter To NCLR, Lambda &#38; the ACLU and Their Response</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/08/13074/comment-page-1#comment-44910</link>
		<dc:creator>The Letter To NCLR, Lambda &#38; the ACLU and Their Response</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13074#comment-44910</guid>
		<description>[...] not previously been discussed.  But, as Rex Wockner had apparently received it and sent it on to Box Turtle Bulletin, which had republished it there, I removed the &#8220;exclusive&#8221; headline to prevent [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] not previously been discussed.  But, as Rex Wockner had apparently received it and sent it on to Box Turtle Bulletin, which had republished it there, I removed the &#8220;exclusive&#8221; headline to prevent [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BobbiCW</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/08/13074/comment-page-1#comment-44528</link>
		<dc:creator>BobbiCW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13074#comment-44528</guid>
		<description>When this lawsuit was first announced I was dumbfounded.  Whoever heard of straight lawyers fighting FOR our rights?  It was inconceivable!  I didn&#039;t trust them and was, in fact, suspicious of them and their motives.  And given that one of these lawyers actually fought for Bush I was willing to believe that they waded into the Prop 8 mire with the sole purpose of setting back equal marriage for decades.

Although the groups who had been fighting for us for years never said it specifically, I assumed that they felt the same way I did.  I was happy that they were doing everything possible to stop the lawsuit in its tracks.

Zoom ahead to today and the growing suspicion that B&amp;O might, just might, actually be on the level.  If that&#039;s really the case then I want the groups who know the most about the subject helping.

I realize that it looks to B&amp;O like we&#039;re jumping on the bandwagon.  But it seems to me like they&#039;re ignoring the reality we&#039;ve lived with for centuries -- straight lawyers have never had our best interests at heart.  They are looked on as the enemy...for good reason.  And it takes time for any straight lawyer with a good heart to overcome that perception.

Now they&#039;ve got their back up and are willing to cut off their noses out of spite.  They need to walk a mile in our shoes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When this lawsuit was first announced I was dumbfounded.  Whoever heard of straight lawyers fighting FOR our rights?  It was inconceivable!  I didn&#8217;t trust them and was, in fact, suspicious of them and their motives.  And given that one of these lawyers actually fought for Bush I was willing to believe that they waded into the Prop 8 mire with the sole purpose of setting back equal marriage for decades.</p>
<p>Although the groups who had been fighting for us for years never said it specifically, I assumed that they felt the same way I did.  I was happy that they were doing everything possible to stop the lawsuit in its tracks.</p>
<p>Zoom ahead to today and the growing suspicion that B&amp;O might, just might, actually be on the level.  If that&#8217;s really the case then I want the groups who know the most about the subject helping.</p>
<p>I realize that it looks to B&amp;O like we&#8217;re jumping on the bandwagon.  But it seems to me like they&#8217;re ignoring the reality we&#8217;ve lived with for centuries &#8212; straight lawyers have never had our best interests at heart.  They are looked on as the enemy&#8230;for good reason.  And it takes time for any straight lawyer with a good heart to overcome that perception.</p>
<p>Now they&#8217;ve got their back up and are willing to cut off their noses out of spite.  They need to walk a mile in our shoes.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/08/13074/comment-page-1#comment-44521</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13074#comment-44521</guid>
		<description>

&lt;blockquote&gt;So B&amp;O have hired political consultants to smear the three successful GLBT organizations.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



Griffin is not a &quot;hired political consultant&quot; of Olson and Boies.  He is the organizer and originator of the lawsuit and the head of AFER.  

He is the one who &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wilshireandwashington.com/2009/05/show-biz-consultant-shakes-up-prop-8-strategy.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;originally contacted&lt;/a&gt; Ted Olson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So B&#038;O have hired political consultants to smear the three successful GLBT organizations.</p></blockquote>
<p>Griffin is not a &#8220;hired political consultant&#8221; of Olson and Boies.  He is the organizer and originator of the lawsuit and the head of AFER.  </p>
<p>He is the one who <a href="http://www.wilshireandwashington.com/2009/05/show-biz-consultant-shakes-up-prop-8-strategy.html" rel="nofollow">originally contacted</a> Ted Olson.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Airhart</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/08/13074/comment-page-1#comment-44498</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Airhart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13074#comment-44498</guid>
		<description>So B&amp;O have hired political consultants to smear the three successful GLBT organizations.

From the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/08/AR2009070804484.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Washington Post&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;In a letter to the legal groups sent Wednesday, board president Chad Griffin, a Los Angeles-based political consultant, said the show of solidarity was coming too late since the same groups originally criticized a federal civil rights claim as premature.

&quot;You have unrelentingly and unequivocally acted to undermine this case even before it was filed. Considering this, it is inconceivable that you would zealously and effectively litigate this case if you were successful in intervening,&quot; Griffin said. &quot;Therefore, we will vigorously oppose any motion to intervene.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Griffin&#039;s behavior on behalf of B&amp;O is territorial and childish -- not at all constructive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So B&amp;O have hired political consultants to smear the three successful GLBT organizations.</p>
<p>From the <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/08/AR2009070804484.html" rel="nofollow">Washington Post</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>In a letter to the legal groups sent Wednesday, board president Chad Griffin, a Los Angeles-based political consultant, said the show of solidarity was coming too late since the same groups originally criticized a federal civil rights claim as premature.</p>
<p>&#8220;You have unrelentingly and unequivocally acted to undermine this case even before it was filed. Considering this, it is inconceivable that you would zealously and effectively litigate this case if you were successful in intervening,&#8221; Griffin said. &#8220;Therefore, we will vigorously oppose any motion to intervene.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Griffin&#8217;s behavior on behalf of B&amp;O is territorial and childish &#8212; not at all constructive.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Airhart</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/08/13074/comment-page-1#comment-44497</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Airhart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13074#comment-44497</guid>
		<description>The mess in California is due, in part, to Equality California recklessly pursuing an arrogant campaign without seeking the support of a diverse and experienced corps of peers around the state.

It now seems that Boies and Olsen are doing the same -- rejecting the high-caliber experience and smart legal reasoning of the three groups. Faced with conservative federal courts, solid precedents must be established before the arguments made by Boies and Olsen will have sturdy foundation to stand upon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The mess in California is due, in part, to Equality California recklessly pursuing an arrogant campaign without seeking the support of a diverse and experienced corps of peers around the state.</p>
<p>It now seems that Boies and Olsen are doing the same &#8212; rejecting the high-caliber experience and smart legal reasoning of the three groups. Faced with conservative federal courts, solid precedents must be established before the arguments made by Boies and Olsen will have sturdy foundation to stand upon.</p>
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		<title>By: tristram</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/08/13074/comment-page-1#comment-44463</link>
		<dc:creator>tristram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13074#comment-44463</guid>
		<description>KipEsquire asserted that: &quot;Every LGBT legal victory of any significance whatsoever has been at the hands of Lambda Legal. Every single one.&quot;

That gives GLAD (not to be confused with GLAAD) somewhat short shrift. They have won a few court cases, including one called &#039;Goodridge&#039; that some consider significant. Not to diminish the accomplishments of LL (for which I have great respect).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KipEsquire asserted that: &#8220;Every LGBT legal victory of any significance whatsoever has been at the hands of Lambda Legal. Every single one.&#8221;</p>
<p>That gives GLAD (not to be confused with GLAAD) somewhat short shrift. They have won a few court cases, including one called &#8216;Goodridge&#8217; that some consider significant. Not to diminish the accomplishments of LL (for which I have great respect).</p>
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		<title>By: The Letter To NCLR, Lambda &#38; the ACLU and Their Response &#171; Law Dork, 2.0</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/08/13074/comment-page-1#comment-44461</link>
		<dc:creator>The Letter To NCLR, Lambda &#38; the ACLU and Their Response &#171; Law Dork, 2.0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13074#comment-44461</guid>
		<description>[...] not previously been discussed.  But, as Rex Wockner had apparently received it and sent it on to Box Turtle Bulletin, which had republished it there, I removed the &#8220;exclusive&#8221; headline to prevent [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] not previously been discussed.  But, as Rex Wockner had apparently received it and sent it on to Box Turtle Bulletin, which had republished it there, I removed the &#8220;exclusive&#8221; headline to prevent [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Burr</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/08/13074/comment-page-1#comment-44447</link>
		<dc:creator>Burr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13074#comment-44447</guid>
		<description>Agreed. I don&#039;t understand the smearing of LL. While they may be late to the party, they are a valuable resource.

I&#039;m not too concerned about the process as long as we get some passionate and effective advocacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed. I don&#8217;t understand the smearing of LL. While they may be late to the party, they are a valuable resource.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not too concerned about the process as long as we get some passionate and effective advocacy.</p>
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		<title>By: KipEsquire</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/08/13074/comment-page-1#comment-44401</link>
		<dc:creator>KipEsquire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13074#comment-44401</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still quite ambivalent (i.e., not entirely hostile) to the Olson/Boies lawsuit.

Having said that: Every LGBT legal victory of any significance whatsoever has been at the hands of Lambda Legal. Every single one. To call them &quot;part of the problem&quot; is to display a total -- TOTAL -- ignorance of the issue and of history. 

Meanwhile: intervention is a matter of right. You either have a legal right to intervene or you don&#039;t. What the original parties may favor or oppose is totally irrelvent.

By the same token, a merit brief is known as an amicus curiae -- &quot;friend of the COURT.&quot; It says nothing about being a &quot;friend of the plaintiff.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still quite ambivalent (i.e., not entirely hostile) to the Olson/Boies lawsuit.</p>
<p>Having said that: Every LGBT legal victory of any significance whatsoever has been at the hands of Lambda Legal. Every single one. To call them &#8220;part of the problem&#8221; is to display a total &#8212; TOTAL &#8212; ignorance of the issue and of history. </p>
<p>Meanwhile: intervention is a matter of right. You either have a legal right to intervene or you don&#8217;t. What the original parties may favor or oppose is totally irrelvent.</p>
<p>By the same token, a merit brief is known as an amicus curiae &#8212; &#8220;friend of the COURT.&#8221; It says nothing about being a &#8220;friend of the plaintiff.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Herrmann</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/08/13074/comment-page-1#comment-44398</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Herrmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13074#comment-44398</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s nothing I can add to the two previous comments - I agree wholeheartedly with them; they express my thoughts completely. But I still feel compelled to add a comment, to say something  about these groups which have drug their feet too long on important matters while sucking up to the establishment only to get mere crumbs of cocktail parties and relocation reimbursements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s nothing I can add to the two previous comments &#8211; I agree wholeheartedly with them; they express my thoughts completely. But I still feel compelled to add a comment, to say something  about these groups which have drug their feet too long on important matters while sucking up to the establishment only to get mere crumbs of cocktail parties and relocation reimbursements.</p>
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