<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: And Number Eight May Be&#8230; Albania?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/30/13672/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/30/13672</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 02:17:56 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: dmatt_dc</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/30/13672/comment-page-1#comment-47015</link>
		<dc:creator>dmatt_dc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 17:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13672#comment-47015</guid>
		<description>I lived in Albania for two years and must say that redhairedghoul&#039;s point, while very unfortunate, is valid.
Albania is moving decisively to formally enter the western/european world including NATO -which it joined in 2009, and eventually the EU and it is making a wide range of legislative moves to get there. 

A colleague noted Albania will do Anything to get into the EU - as long as it does not mean actually working... passing a law is easy peasy...

Of course, nowhere does legislation alone translate into respect for the rights of LGBT persons. In fact, the record of Albania on this is pretty shabby. Due in part to lack of exposure, it has a long way to go in terms of respect for those living with HIV/AIDS also.

I suggest anyone interested review the US Dept. of State Human Rights Report for 2006... and the case of the detention, illtreatment, and trial of 5(of 8) arrested gays and lesbians in Tirana in 2006: www.ilga-europe.org/content/download/8388/50234

However, it is also interesting to note that there are other socio-cultural factors at play that could actually see that legislation move forward as well as a growth in respect for LGBT rights:
 - ALbania is generally a tolerant society... Muslims, Orthodox, Catholics and others live and work side by side here in harmony. This is not the case elsewhere in the Balkans and barely the case in much of the EU.
 - ALbania is a country of about 3 million --- with another 2 million living in Italy and Greece. Another million plus are in the wider EU and elsewhere (USA/Canada/Etc.) This enormous population abroad, which travels home regularly, is learning the ways of their host countries and those valuse are transferring home slowly, but surely.

Also worth note is the almost assured support of the Socialist Party for the proposed bill. The PS party leader (Rama) is a liberal-minded artist turned politician who studied and taught for years in France...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lived in Albania for two years and must say that redhairedghoul&#8217;s point, while very unfortunate, is valid.<br />
Albania is moving decisively to formally enter the western/european world including NATO -which it joined in 2009, and eventually the EU and it is making a wide range of legislative moves to get there. </p>
<p>A colleague noted Albania will do Anything to get into the EU &#8211; as long as it does not mean actually working&#8230; passing a law is easy peasy&#8230;</p>
<p>Of course, nowhere does legislation alone translate into respect for the rights of LGBT persons. In fact, the record of Albania on this is pretty shabby. Due in part to lack of exposure, it has a long way to go in terms of respect for those living with HIV/AIDS also.</p>
<p>I suggest anyone interested review the US Dept. of State Human Rights Report for 2006&#8230; and the case of the detention, illtreatment, and trial of 5(of 8) arrested gays and lesbians in Tirana in 2006: <a href="http://www.ilga-europe.org/content/download/8388/50234" rel="nofollow">http://www.ilga-europe.org/content/download/8388/50234</a></p>
<p>However, it is also interesting to note that there are other socio-cultural factors at play that could actually see that legislation move forward as well as a growth in respect for LGBT rights:<br />
 &#8211; ALbania is generally a tolerant society&#8230; Muslims, Orthodox, Catholics and others live and work side by side here in harmony. This is not the case elsewhere in the Balkans and barely the case in much of the EU.<br />
 &#8211; ALbania is a country of about 3 million &#8212; with another 2 million living in Italy and Greece. Another million plus are in the wider EU and elsewhere (USA/Canada/Etc.) This enormous population abroad, which travels home regularly, is learning the ways of their host countries and those valuse are transferring home slowly, but surely.</p>
<p>Also worth note is the almost assured support of the Socialist Party for the proposed bill. The PS party leader (Rama) is a liberal-minded artist turned politician who studied and taught for years in France&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ----</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/30/13672/comment-page-1#comment-46897</link>
		<dc:creator>----</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13672#comment-46897</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t Albania land of the &quot;sworn virgins&quot;, women who choose to live as men but cannot have sex with them? I wonder how this decision (if passes) might effect that lifestyle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t Albania land of the &#8220;sworn virgins&#8221;, women who choose to live as men but cannot have sex with them? I wonder how this decision (if passes) might effect that lifestyle.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: redhairedghoul</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/30/13672/comment-page-1#comment-46882</link>
		<dc:creator>redhairedghoul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13672#comment-46882</guid>
		<description>In Albania, they would still get harassed to no end if they tried to get married.

In 2006, Albania passed a &quot;no smoking&quot; ordinance, which made it &quot;illegal&quot; to smoke inside a bar/cafe.  No one stopped.  No one.  You could go to the trendiest bar in the capital and there would be an ashtray on the table waiting for you to light up.

Laws mean nothing in Albania.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Albania, they would still get harassed to no end if they tried to get married.</p>
<p>In 2006, Albania passed a &#8220;no smoking&#8221; ordinance, which made it &#8220;illegal&#8221; to smoke inside a bar/cafe.  No one stopped.  No one.  You could go to the trendiest bar in the capital and there would be an ashtray on the table waiting for you to light up.</p>
<p>Laws mean nothing in Albania.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BradP</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/30/13672/comment-page-1#comment-46880</link>
		<dc:creator>BradP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13672#comment-46880</guid>
		<description>I agree with Matt--what?  What does it matter that Spain/Ned/Belg/Canada/Sweden/Norway are monarchies?  

Constitutional monarchies are functionally no different from other parliamentary democracies, except that the King(SP/Belg/Swe/Nor)/Queen(Ned)/Sovereign(Can) are not elected and figurehead presidents are.  Sure, the monarch&#039;s powers are theoretically vast, but never used.  Parliament still runs the show.  It&#039;s not like the monarch is passing notes saying &quot;It is Our royal wish that gay marriage be legalized, pls handle, kthx.&quot; 

Canada&#039;s gay marriage law wasn&#039;t even signed into law by the Sovereign or by her representative, the Governor General.  The Chief Justice, acting as Deputy Governor General, did it.

People gratuitously putting down monarchies should really understand them a little better.  Our Sovereign and Governor General are well respected.  And they can do things without there being a political overtone.  Bush visiting the troops in his flight gear (mission accomplished, yeah!) was a political stunt; Michaelle Jean&#039;s wasn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Matt&#8211;what?  What does it matter that Spain/Ned/Belg/Canada/Sweden/Norway are monarchies?  </p>
<p>Constitutional monarchies are functionally no different from other parliamentary democracies, except that the King(SP/Belg/Swe/Nor)/Queen(Ned)/Sovereign(Can) are not elected and figurehead presidents are.  Sure, the monarch&#8217;s powers are theoretically vast, but never used.  Parliament still runs the show.  It&#8217;s not like the monarch is passing notes saying &#8220;It is Our royal wish that gay marriage be legalized, pls handle, kthx.&#8221; </p>
<p>Canada&#8217;s gay marriage law wasn&#8217;t even signed into law by the Sovereign or by her representative, the Governor General.  The Chief Justice, acting as Deputy Governor General, did it.</p>
<p>People gratuitously putting down monarchies should really understand them a little better.  Our Sovereign and Governor General are well respected.  And they can do things without there being a political overtone.  Bush visiting the troops in his flight gear (mission accomplished, yeah!) was a political stunt; Michaelle Jean&#8217;s wasn&#8217;t.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/30/13672/comment-page-1#comment-46876</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13672#comment-46876</guid>
		<description>I am confused by tavdy&#039;s response. I think you need to be more precise. My country, Canada is a constitutional monarchy. Do you understand the distinction? Do you think the Queen was involved in legislation of marriage? The head of state is symbolic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am confused by tavdy&#8217;s response. I think you need to be more precise. My country, Canada is a constitutional monarchy. Do you understand the distinction? Do you think the Queen was involved in legislation of marriage? The head of state is symbolic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ephilei</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/30/13672/comment-page-1#comment-46873</link>
		<dc:creator>Ephilei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13672#comment-46873</guid>
		<description>So, Albania is the new Iowa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Albania is the new Iowa.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/30/13672/comment-page-1#comment-46866</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13672#comment-46866</guid>
		<description>&quot; the other six are all monarchies.&quot;
Just for the (USA) record, that doesnt make us ruled by them, for instance, my contry (Sweden) our king has only symbolic powers, no political ones...
Our (democratly voted) goverments have raised the question to dethrone him a few times, but our king and his family is quite popular, and it is VERY unlikely to happen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; the other six are all monarchies.&#8221;<br />
Just for the (USA) record, that doesnt make us ruled by them, for instance, my contry (Sweden) our king has only symbolic powers, no political ones&#8230;<br />
Our (democratly voted) goverments have raised the question to dethrone him a few times, but our king and his family is quite popular, and it is VERY unlikely to happen</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tavdy79</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/30/13672/comment-page-1#comment-46861</link>
		<dc:creator>tavdy79</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 08:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13672#comment-46861</guid>
		<description>AJD, it&#039;s probably worth noting that Albania would only be the second republic to legalise gay marriage, after ZA; the other six are all monarchies. There&#039;s only one monarchy left in Europe that neither has recognition nor is making any moves to do so - the Bailiwick of Guernsey.

Richard, you&#039;re almost definitely right about this being a ploy to get Albania into the EU, but that doesn&#039;t necessarily mean it&#039;s a bad thing from Albania&#039;s point of view. There have been a lot of problems in western-EU states with eastern-Europeans breaking laws they weren&#039;t aware of; Albania, Croatia and others are changing their laws to resemble those of the west to prevent that kind of misunderstanding once they join.

Burr, full marriage rights aren&#039;t ubiquitous across the EU at the moment, but they could be in the future. I don&#039;t think the EU has the power to force member states to legalise gay marriage, however the European Court of Human Rights does and all EU states (and many others, including Turkey, Russia and Ukraine) are subject to ECHR rulings, as will the EU itself be once the Lisbon Treaty is fully ratified.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AJD, it&#8217;s probably worth noting that Albania would only be the second republic to legalise gay marriage, after ZA; the other six are all monarchies. There&#8217;s only one monarchy left in Europe that neither has recognition nor is making any moves to do so &#8211; the Bailiwick of Guernsey.</p>
<p>Richard, you&#8217;re almost definitely right about this being a ploy to get Albania into the EU, but that doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean it&#8217;s a bad thing from Albania&#8217;s point of view. There have been a lot of problems in western-EU states with eastern-Europeans breaking laws they weren&#8217;t aware of; Albania, Croatia and others are changing their laws to resemble those of the west to prevent that kind of misunderstanding once they join.</p>
<p>Burr, full marriage rights aren&#8217;t ubiquitous across the EU at the moment, but they could be in the future. I don&#8217;t think the EU has the power to force member states to legalise gay marriage, however the European Court of Human Rights does and all EU states (and many others, including Turkey, Russia and Ukraine) are subject to ECHR rulings, as will the EU itself be once the Lisbon Treaty is fully ratified.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Burr</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/30/13672/comment-page-1#comment-46847</link>
		<dc:creator>Burr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13672#comment-46847</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a pretty odd rationale, but who am I to argue I guess. It&#039;s not like full marriage rights are ubiquitous across the EU.

I think what&#039;s impressive is they aren&#039;t going for the incremental approach. Perhaps if it doesn&#039;t pass they will still generate enough pressure for a civil union compromise..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a pretty odd rationale, but who am I to argue I guess. It&#8217;s not like full marriage rights are ubiquitous across the EU.</p>
<p>I think what&#8217;s impressive is they aren&#8217;t going for the incremental approach. Perhaps if it doesn&#8217;t pass they will still generate enough pressure for a civil union compromise..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard W. Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/07/30/13672/comment-page-1#comment-46846</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard W. Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=13672#comment-46846</guid>
		<description>Oh, but it is quite simple. Albania is trying to bribe the members of the European Union to allow them into this economic cooperative. The US does not need to pursue such bribery, already being bully enough to get in everywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, but it is quite simple. Albania is trying to bribe the members of the European Union to allow them into this economic cooperative. The US does not need to pursue such bribery, already being bully enough to get in everywhere.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
