thanks for being loving.

But what you said need clarification. When you say “Only if HE himself wants to change is it possible anything can or will change”, we have to be very careful that we define what you mean by “anything”.

The best (but limited) study available on Exodus is the Jones and Yarhouse study. A careful review shows that orientation itself does not change. Gay men do not EVER become opposite-sex attracted men. Not even the “successes” claim that.

Rather, some small percentage (perhaps 9%) are able to develop a perhaps-temporary relationship with their wives in which their sex life is adequately fulfilling – even though they remain primarily same-sex attracted.

Another small percentage remains celebate.

The rest either abandon the program or languish on with a life consisting of a cycle of “slip ups” and repentance.

OF COURSE, we here at BTB support free will and think ALL adults should be responsible for their own lives, even those who hope in vain for a miracle that God doesn’t seem much inclined to provide. We simply oppose those who wil lie to them.

Sorry but we have witnessed far too many examples where that’s definitely not the case, including one recent case where financial retribution against an adult child was used to manipulate him into it.

If these sort of things really were that neutral, nonagressive, unassuming, and not detrimental to so many of their participants’ health there would not be an issue.

And it’s not as simple as wanting it. The vast majority of failures (which make up the vast majority of attempts), wanted it really badly to no avail.

i have seent he seamy underbelly of life and it isn’t pretty. i might be autistic but i am not stupid, something not realized by all the people i have watched that called themselves christian and cared for their “lessers” in th psychiatric field. i got their number.

if you go through history gay people have contributed greatly to culture and our way of life. gays invented culture.

it is more than sex, it is a way of thinking, of being.

my dad asked me if the shrink was curing me yet. i told him the shrink said me being gay wasn’t the problem, he was. my dad was going to fire him but my mom said he was right. ended up getting sent to confession for being gay and ended up raped.

and i have aspergers.

such is life.

shrinks are for dealing with stuff like that, not changing your very being. never works on rapists and murderers so why should it work on sexual identity? excuse the comparison but you can therpy a serial killer all you want and therapy him to the end of the earth and he is still going to be a serial killer. why would anyone think that would work to change people from gay to straight? it doesn’t work to change straight people gay!

John