No US state can provide survivors benefits in Social Security pensions, for example. No state can allow a foreign citizen same-sex spouse legally reside the U.S. as a similar heterosexual spouse can. In these and about a thousand other respects, no US state can offer same-sex couples the rights or impose responsibilities as many other nations.

Most readers of the blog know that all 50 states are behind the curve in terms of civil rights for GLBT.

Actually, there are several – mostly in New England – that are the equal of European and other nations in their provision of equal rights for LGBTs. They’re still in the distinct minority, and the US as a whole is definitely way behind many other Western countries, but they’re there nevertheless – and they’re lightyears ahead of all but one of the countries in Africa, and most of those in Asia.

We differ on our analyses of the expectation of movement on the marriage issue in the US, among other matters.

But, yes, Iceland is undoubtedly a lovely country and very supportive of its gay constituents and friends.

I’m curious what makes you think it’s not far off, considering Obama has made no moves towards removing DOMA (other than scrubbing his promise to remove it from his website) and the congress isn’t working on it either. Kerry’s Defense of American Families act hasn’t moved either. The US can’t even pass UHC which is to the benefit of everyone, gay or straight, so my hopes of ever having my marriage recognized in the US within the next 10 years is slim.

Conversely, Iceland has had same sex partnerships since 1996, they carry full rights (that are recognized by all other countries with modern civil rights), can be done in a church, the head of the country is an openly partnered lesbian, and there is a bill being worked on that will make marriages gender neutral.

You can compare it to calling them “jew marriages” but Iceland doesn’t have the same cultural context as the US toward the word marriage, and many same-sex partners have just as much of a celebration when they get married as any straight couple. There is also not a history of misused “separate but equal” issues in Iceland.

Just like the original article mentions, Iceland is a country with modern civil rights, laws, and one of the most openly supportive countries towards it’s GLBT citizens (and adopted foreigners) that there is.

You’ll just have to forgive me for answering Alex’ questions. I’m sorry if this distresses you.

Alex,

The distinction between “marriage” and “domestic partner” encompases a number of differences:

1. Prop 8 intentionally established a two-tier system in which one type of people had access to both rights and title and the other did not. The issue wasn’t ‘can gay people visit in the hospital’ but rather a purposeful effort to tell gay people that they are inferior.

It would be very similar to telling Jews that they can’t be “married”, but instead they can be “Jew-hitched” which has all the same rights but can’t use the the word “marriage”, is filed separately, and won’t be counted in the census.

2. Prop 8 gave justification and permission to those wishing to discriminate. A proprietor can say, “I have a discount only for married people”. This may not necessarily be legal, but the issue is foggy enough to get away with it.

3. Society recognizes marriage differently from domestic partnerships. Many gay couples reported that their neighbors saw them differently and I’ve seen that gay people have different expections on gay married couples than they do on DPs. Interestingly, many reported feeling differently about their relationship after going through the process.

Families don’t gather, churches don’t decorate, and communities don’t celebrate DPs like they do marriages, gay and straight.

4. When the feds recognize marriage – which isn’t far off – they will recognize marriage. They won’t recognize DPs or civil unions or reciprical benefit arrangements or any other structure because in most places they are not the same thing.

5. Prop 8 removed a claim that gay people – and indeed the state of California – have against the federal government. Right now Massachusetts is suing claiming that the feds are violating their states rights. CA can’t join that lawsuit.

There are many other tangible and intangible differences.

I hope I’ve answered your questions. But, if not, perhaps we should let this thread get back on topic and discuss that elsewhere.

I don’t mean to go off-topic from the article, but I’m genuinely confused. If California same-sex domestic partners were legally equal to married couples before Prop 8 and are still legally equal to married couples after Prop 8, what exactly have they lost?

Currently there has been a bill proposed to be submitted to Congress (or maybe it has been submitted, I’m not sure) to recognize those marriages as are recognized by states.

Additionally, the state of Massachusetts has sued the federal government to demand recognition of same-sex marriages conducted by that state.

Did married gay couples in California have federal recognition before Prop 8?