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	<title>Comments on: Ex-Gay Group Threatens Legal Action To Keep Secrets Hidden</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: You are born&#8230; &#171; Mallard&#39;s Perspective &#8211; Ed C.&#39;s official online presence</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315/comment-page-1#comment-67267</link>
		<dc:creator>You are born&#8230; &#171; Mallard&#39;s Perspective &#8211; Ed C.&#39;s official online presence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2010 06:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=14315#comment-67267</guid>
		<description>[...] What about conversion therapy? Well&#8230;after reading this, I&#8217;m more convinced that it&#8217;s not worth the money, and the... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] What about conversion therapy? Well&#8230;after reading this, I&#8217;m more convinced that it&#8217;s not worth the money, and the&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dos manzanas: &#8220;Mi viaje hacia la hombría&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315/comment-page-1#comment-66754</link>
		<dc:creator>Dos manzanas: &#8220;Mi viaje hacia la hombría&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2010 19:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=14315#comment-66754</guid>
		<description>[...] industria ex-gay, fingiendo una orientación homosexual, para investigar su funcionamiento. Ahora, desafiando un acuerdo de confidencialidad, relata su experiencia en un retiro de fin de semana denominado “Journey into Manhood” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] industria ex-gay, fingiendo una orientación homosexual, para investigar su funcionamiento. Ahora, desafiando un acuerdo de confidencialidad, relata su experiencia en un retiro de fin de semana denominado “Journey into Manhood” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shanna</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315/comment-page-1#comment-56361</link>
		<dc:creator>Shanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=14315#comment-56361</guid>
		<description>I think Ted&#039;s research is very important, and outside sources need to know what is going on in these ridiculous retreats.  Without outside scrutiny, they could be doing anything to these men - which they are.

Denying your true self is unhealthy mentally, emotionally, psychologically, and even bodily.  The harm to these men&#039;s families is even more of a concern.  The more they feel they have to be &quot;secret&quot; about their true, inner selves and lives, the more they will go off and do dangerous things (sleeping with other men they meet online, for example, then coming home to their wives).

No all-loving god would create people with ardent desires and true feelings then force them to deny who they really are.  It&#039;s the zenith of hypocrisy and irony; unless they believe their god is some kind of cold-hearted trickster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Ted&#8217;s research is very important, and outside sources need to know what is going on in these ridiculous retreats.  Without outside scrutiny, they could be doing anything to these men &#8211; which they are.</p>
<p>Denying your true self is unhealthy mentally, emotionally, psychologically, and even bodily.  The harm to these men&#8217;s families is even more of a concern.  The more they feel they have to be &#8220;secret&#8221; about their true, inner selves and lives, the more they will go off and do dangerous things (sleeping with other men they meet online, for example, then coming home to their wives).</p>
<p>No all-loving god would create people with ardent desires and true feelings then force them to deny who they really are.  It&#8217;s the zenith of hypocrisy and irony; unless they believe their god is some kind of cold-hearted trickster.</p>
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		<title>By: Blago</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315/comment-page-1#comment-56339</link>
		<dc:creator>Blago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 05:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=14315#comment-56339</guid>
		<description>Can someone explain to me why the newspaper was afraid of publishing the piece when the confidentiality agreement was only between Ted and the group.  I mean, I guess Ted might have to pay some damages if the piece is published, but I don&#039;t understand why the newspaper would.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can someone explain to me why the newspaper was afraid of publishing the piece when the confidentiality agreement was only between Ted and the group.  I mean, I guess Ted might have to pay some damages if the piece is published, but I don&#8217;t understand why the newspaper would.</p>
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		<title>By: deborah conner</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315/comment-page-1#comment-56077</link>
		<dc:creator>deborah conner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=14315#comment-56077</guid>
		<description>I read Ted Cox&#039;s account in Alternet,  and thank him for this work. The pain shared by those in the &quot;we will fix you&quot; community seems summed up in one word: loneliness. The answer according to the therapy is their (per)version of Jesus: an invisible friend who sees into your deepest desires and makes sure you adhere to Fundamentalist Church doctrine. This is a &quot;Jesus&quot; a long way from the Beatitudes.  

It strikes me: Such is the mind-set of the men at C st., The Family Jeff Sharlet writes about, the tanned, bouffanted, capped-toothed Congressmen lined up with Michelle Bachmann on the Senate steps. 

This was telling:

&quot;The [camp] reinforced stereotypes about masculinity and manhood. The counselor would say: &#039;Complete this sentence, &#039;I feel masculine when,&#039; or &#039;A man is this.&#039; And the answers that came up were: protector, provider, husband, father. A man is strong, he is a meat eater. They&#039;re enforcing this alpha male American masculinity. &quot;

And this is the definition of lonely, a human totally self-sufficient, &quot;needless&quot;, not to be questioned, putting food on the table in an economy where jobs are scarce. The model is the frontiersman in a world where there is no longer a frontier. The real sickness is the myth of masculinity. I suppose that&#039;s why so many guns are sold and why the week-end do-it-yourself militias are springing up in every state. Reason can&#039;t speak to their inner phantoms. Their lonely. Children observe: walk away from this into another future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read Ted Cox&#8217;s account in Alternet,  and thank him for this work. The pain shared by those in the &#8220;we will fix you&#8221; community seems summed up in one word: loneliness. The answer according to the therapy is their (per)version of Jesus: an invisible friend who sees into your deepest desires and makes sure you adhere to Fundamentalist Church doctrine. This is a &#8220;Jesus&#8221; a long way from the Beatitudes.  </p>
<p>It strikes me: Such is the mind-set of the men at C st., The Family Jeff Sharlet writes about, the tanned, bouffanted, capped-toothed Congressmen lined up with Michelle Bachmann on the Senate steps. </p>
<p>This was telling:</p>
<p>&#8220;The [camp] reinforced stereotypes about masculinity and manhood. The counselor would say: &#8216;Complete this sentence, &#8216;I feel masculine when,&#8217; or &#8216;A man is this.&#8217; And the answers that came up were: protector, provider, husband, father. A man is strong, he is a meat eater. They&#8217;re enforcing this alpha male American masculinity. &#8221;</p>
<p>And this is the definition of lonely, a human totally self-sufficient, &#8220;needless&#8221;, not to be questioned, putting food on the table in an economy where jobs are scarce. The model is the frontiersman in a world where there is no longer a frontier. The real sickness is the myth of masculinity. I suppose that&#8217;s why so many guns are sold and why the week-end do-it-yourself militias are springing up in every state. Reason can&#8217;t speak to their inner phantoms. Their lonely. Children observe: walk away from this into another future.</p>
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		<title>By: SLC Weekly interview hits the Interwebz &#171; el blogo de tedrick</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315/comment-page-1#comment-48729</link>
		<dc:creator>SLC Weekly interview hits the Interwebz &#171; el blogo de tedrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=14315#comment-48729</guid>
		<description>[...] http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315/comment-page-1#comment-48691</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=14315#comment-48691</guid>
		<description>Bromance lives!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bromance lives!</p>
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		<title>By: Regan DuCasse</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315/comment-page-1#comment-48653</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan DuCasse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 04:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=14315#comment-48653</guid>
		<description>Oh boy...
Reminds me of when I asked the Living Waters folks if I could be among them and listen and observe what they did, their method and process. That way, I could understand exactly how it&#039;s supposed to go.
 No go, NOPE, no observers, no one would talk about their methods, no one would make the sessions available for audit. 
 Right. A complete 360 from a more transparent and highly successful SUPPORT organization such as oh, PFLAG. It&#039;s not like I don&#039;t understand about confidentiality and about respecting the privacy of the participants. No one has to name names.
It would be nice to talk to a participant directly BEFORE the process and AFTER to get a read on how profound the change, ya know?

However...

  PFLAG, has rap sessions where people are given opportunities to talk about their backgrounds and motives for being there and so on. You can&#039;t name names outside of the meetings or indulge anyone&#039;s personal information or what you heard about their families.

  However, ALL are welcome, it&#039;s free and no one is locked in the room, nor forced to SIGN anything, and especially, don&#039;t use any psychological counseling or make any claims contrary to simple personal education and support.

    THAT&#039;S why I found that when I said that considering the LOFTY claims that Living Waters are so strongly successful and all, what&#039;s the big secret about their secret?
  And since they are so PROUD of their success stories and advertise and recruit aggressively, then aren&#039;t they ALSO proud of their methods, and would WELCOME access to interested parties on what they do and how they do it?

  You know, FREE PUBLICITY and all.

  Yeah, I kinda know what you&#039;re thinking, goes for me too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh boy&#8230;<br />
Reminds me of when I asked the Living Waters folks if I could be among them and listen and observe what they did, their method and process. That way, I could understand exactly how it&#8217;s supposed to go.<br />
 No go, NOPE, no observers, no one would talk about their methods, no one would make the sessions available for audit.<br />
 Right. A complete 360 from a more transparent and highly successful SUPPORT organization such as oh, PFLAG. It&#8217;s not like I don&#8217;t understand about confidentiality and about respecting the privacy of the participants. No one has to name names.<br />
It would be nice to talk to a participant directly BEFORE the process and AFTER to get a read on how profound the change, ya know?</p>
<p>However&#8230;</p>
<p>  PFLAG, has rap sessions where people are given opportunities to talk about their backgrounds and motives for being there and so on. You can&#8217;t name names outside of the meetings or indulge anyone&#8217;s personal information or what you heard about their families.</p>
<p>  However, ALL are welcome, it&#8217;s free and no one is locked in the room, nor forced to SIGN anything, and especially, don&#8217;t use any psychological counseling or make any claims contrary to simple personal education and support.</p>
<p>    THAT&#8217;S why I found that when I said that considering the LOFTY claims that Living Waters are so strongly successful and all, what&#8217;s the big secret about their secret?<br />
  And since they are so PROUD of their success stories and advertise and recruit aggressively, then aren&#8217;t they ALSO proud of their methods, and would WELCOME access to interested parties on what they do and how they do it?</p>
<p>  You know, FREE PUBLICITY and all.</p>
<p>  Yeah, I kinda know what you&#8217;re thinking, goes for me too.</p>
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		<title>By: Burr</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315/comment-page-1#comment-48649</link>
		<dc:creator>Burr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=14315#comment-48649</guid>
		<description>If I were locked in with a bunch of depressing, self hating guys and forced to do cheesy over the top &quot;manly&quot; stuff my same-sex attractions would go down, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I were locked in with a bunch of depressing, self hating guys and forced to do cheesy over the top &#8220;manly&#8221; stuff my same-sex attractions would go down, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/08/27/14315/comment-page-1#comment-48648</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=14315#comment-48648</guid>
		<description>Despite being led by a Mormon (who was also a keynote speaker at the Mormon Evergreen Conference), and marketed heavily to gay Mormons, Journey into Manhood formerly used a remote campsite owned by the Methodist Church for it&#039;s Utah de-gaying weekends. Which begs the question why weren&#039;t they using one of the dozens of LDS Churches scout campsites or retreat centers in Utah? Or does even the LDS Church want to keep these hacks at arms length? 

The Methodists are super-inclusive and rent their campsite to anyone. They only charge $8 a night per person. JiM charges participants $600 for the two night weekend so do the math. Someone is making a killing off these guilt-fests).

They probably would have been there last year but the local gay paper Q Salt Lake wrote an article about JiM, and the Methodists also found out that JiM was operating without insurance.

Not surprisingly Journey into Manhood had a new super secret Utah site this year. No idea if they had insurance but their waivers look pretty spiffy!

PS. SPEAKING OF PARANOIA, During the JiM weekends, the camp caretakers (a lovely retired Methodist couple from Texas) were forbidden to leave their RV or talk to the participants. AND the camps gates were locked from the inside, not to keep people out, but to keep people in.

Discuss among yourselves....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite being led by a Mormon (who was also a keynote speaker at the Mormon Evergreen Conference), and marketed heavily to gay Mormons, Journey into Manhood formerly used a remote campsite owned by the Methodist Church for it&#8217;s Utah de-gaying weekends. Which begs the question why weren&#8217;t they using one of the dozens of LDS Churches scout campsites or retreat centers in Utah? Or does even the LDS Church want to keep these hacks at arms length? </p>
<p>The Methodists are super-inclusive and rent their campsite to anyone. They only charge $8 a night per person. JiM charges participants $600 for the two night weekend so do the math. Someone is making a killing off these guilt-fests).</p>
<p>They probably would have been there last year but the local gay paper Q Salt Lake wrote an article about JiM, and the Methodists also found out that JiM was operating without insurance.</p>
<p>Not surprisingly Journey into Manhood had a new super secret Utah site this year. No idea if they had insurance but their waivers look pretty spiffy!</p>
<p>PS. SPEAKING OF PARANOIA, During the JiM weekends, the camp caretakers (a lovely retired Methodist couple from Texas) were forbidden to leave their RV or talk to the participants. AND the camps gates were locked from the inside, not to keep people out, but to keep people in.</p>
<p>Discuss among yourselves&#8230;.</p>
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