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	<title>Comments on: Meg Whitman&#8217;s Slap</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/09/29/15066/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/09/29/15066</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/09/29/15066/comment-page-1#comment-50626</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 01:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15066#comment-50626</guid>
		<description>Arnold promised to campaign against prop 8, but did nothing of the sort. In fact, the week before the election, he managed to be out of the state.

There is not a single republican I can think of that I could vote for, with hte possible exception of Tom Campbell and Jerry Sanders-- and that would be only in case the democrat was a total douche.

Unfortunately, I can think of very few dems that I could give my whole-hearted support to, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arnold promised to campaign against prop 8, but did nothing of the sort. In fact, the week before the election, he managed to be out of the state.</p>
<p>There is not a single republican I can think of that I could vote for, with hte possible exception of Tom Campbell and Jerry Sanders&#8211; and that would be only in case the democrat was a total douche.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I can think of very few dems that I could give my whole-hearted support to, either.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/09/29/15066/comment-page-1#comment-50623</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 01:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15066#comment-50623</guid>
		<description>Of course Arnold did not challenge the court decision and at the last minute, did support Prop 8. The game changed when the elected Democrat State Attorney General Jerry Brown got out in front and made his/California&#039;s position very clear. Arnold was not stupid enough to fight that one in the public forum. What he did not do was speak out early and often in support of our Equal Rights. He is no supporter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course Arnold did not challenge the court decision and at the last minute, did support Prop 8. The game changed when the elected Democrat State Attorney General Jerry Brown got out in front and made his/California&#8217;s position very clear. Arnold was not stupid enough to fight that one in the public forum. What he did not do was speak out early and often in support of our Equal Rights. He is no supporter.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/09/29/15066/comment-page-1#comment-50621</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 00:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15066#comment-50621</guid>
		<description>Ken

&lt;blockquote&gt;The statement is the best we could expect from a serious GOP candidate. What a pity. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

One might suppose so but in this case we could expect much better.

Tom Campbell is also a Republican candidate for governor.  A week before the election he wrote &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/24/4153&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an editorial&lt;/a&gt; in Reason Online in which he argued that Republicans should reject Prop 8.

Campbell seems to be doing about as well in the polls as either Whitman or Poizner, or at least the ones I could find.  As the 2000 Republican Senate Nominee against Diane Feinstein he has some name recognition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken</p>
<blockquote><p>The statement is the best we could expect from a serious GOP candidate. What a pity. </p></blockquote>
<p>One might suppose so but in this case we could expect much better.</p>
<p>Tom Campbell is also a Republican candidate for governor.  A week before the election he wrote <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/24/4153" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">an editorial</a> in Reason Online in which he argued that Republicans should reject Prop 8.</p>
<p>Campbell seems to be doing about as well in the polls as either Whitman or Poizner, or at least the ones I could find.  As the 2000 Republican Senate Nominee against Diane Feinstein he has some name recognition.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/09/29/15066/comment-page-1#comment-50617</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 00:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15066#comment-50617</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Did you know that there was a bill legalizing same sex marriage sent to his desk at least once and he refused to sign it?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, I do.  And I know why

&lt;blockquote&gt;Gay CA residents could have had full marriage equality 1-2 years before they were granted it by the courts and the governator did not have the balls to sign the bill.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No, that isn&#039;t correct.  And this is not a matter of opinion or speculation.

Schwarzenegger vetoed the legislation because he believed it was in conflict with Prop 22.  He said the road to marriage was through the courts but that he could not sign legislation that was unconstitutional by being a legislative attempt to overturn citizen initiated law.

Some gay leaders claimed that he was wrong and that the bills did not violate Prop 22 because it applied only to out-of-state marriages.  However, had he signed the bills, they would have immediately been challenged and stayed until the court decided.

And the court did decide.

As part of In Re Marriages, the courts found that the ban on marriage was unconstitutional.  However, they &lt;i&gt;also&lt;/i&gt; found that the legislature&#039;s marriage bills would have been in violation of 2000&#039;s ballot initiative Prop 22.  

&lt;blockquote&gt;As already noted, it is clear that section 300 in itself limits marriages performed in California to opposite-sex couples, but the proper interpretation of section 308.5 nonetheless is quite significant because, unlike section 300, section 308.5 is an initiative statute -- a measure that, under the provisions of article II, section 10, subdivision (c) of the California Constitution, cannot be modified by the Legislature without submitting the proposed modification to a vote of the people.
...
For the reasons discussed below, we conclude that in light of both the language and the purpose of section 308.5, this provision reasonably must be interpreted to apply both to marriages performed in California and those performed in other jurisdictions.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In other words, Schwarzenegger was right on both counts and there would not have been marriage one day sooner had he signed rather than vetoed.

(Nevertheless, in retrospect I wish he had signed as a symbol of support even if legally it was irrelevant).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Did you know that there was a bill legalizing same sex marriage sent to his desk at least once and he refused to sign it?</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, I do.  And I know why</p>
<blockquote><p>Gay CA residents could have had full marriage equality 1-2 years before they were granted it by the courts and the governator did not have the balls to sign the bill.</p></blockquote>
<p>No, that isn&#8217;t correct.  And this is not a matter of opinion or speculation.</p>
<p>Schwarzenegger vetoed the legislation because he believed it was in conflict with Prop 22.  He said the road to marriage was through the courts but that he could not sign legislation that was unconstitutional by being a legislative attempt to overturn citizen initiated law.</p>
<p>Some gay leaders claimed that he was wrong and that the bills did not violate Prop 22 because it applied only to out-of-state marriages.  However, had he signed the bills, they would have immediately been challenged and stayed until the court decided.</p>
<p>And the court did decide.</p>
<p>As part of In Re Marriages, the courts found that the ban on marriage was unconstitutional.  However, they <i>also</i> found that the legislature&#8217;s marriage bills would have been in violation of 2000&#8242;s ballot initiative Prop 22.  </p>
<blockquote><p>As already noted, it is clear that section 300 in itself limits marriages performed in California to opposite-sex couples, but the proper interpretation of section 308.5 nonetheless is quite significant because, unlike section 300, section 308.5 is an initiative statute &#8212; a measure that, under the provisions of article II, section 10, subdivision (c) of the California Constitution, cannot be modified by the Legislature without submitting the proposed modification to a vote of the people.<br />
&#8230;<br />
For the reasons discussed below, we conclude that in light of both the language and the purpose of section 308.5, this provision reasonably must be interpreted to apply both to marriages performed in California and those performed in other jurisdictions.</p></blockquote>
<p>In other words, Schwarzenegger was right on both counts and there would not have been marriage one day sooner had he signed rather than vetoed.</p>
<p>(Nevertheless, in retrospect I wish he had signed as a symbol of support even if legally it was irrelevant).</p>
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		<title>By: occono</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/09/29/15066/comment-page-1#comment-50614</link>
		<dc:creator>occono</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15066#comment-50614</guid>
		<description>Linoro, I&#039;m not talking about Prop 8 in that post, I was talking about Prop 22. The Marriage Equality Bill he vetoed would have been unconstitutional because of 22., which the legislature wasn&#039;t constitutionally allowed to override.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linoro, I&#8217;m not talking about Prop 8 in that post, I was talking about Prop 22. The Marriage Equality Bill he vetoed would have been unconstitutional because of 22., which the legislature wasn&#8217;t constitutionally allowed to override.</p>
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		<title>By: Burr</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/09/29/15066/comment-page-1#comment-50606</link>
		<dc:creator>Burr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15066#comment-50606</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s just an utterly mentally stunted statement. Like Jim said, it&#039;s not her call. She shouldn&#039;t have said that. It&#039;s just arrogant to dictate our feelings to us.

I&#039;m so tired of the &quot;defend the term&quot; argument. It&#039;s a stupid one. Gays are going to call each other married whether its in the law or now, and the word will be &quot;degraded&quot; in meaning all the same. Government&#039;s role is to protect TANGIBLE RIGHTS, not contemporary definitions of words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s just an utterly mentally stunted statement. Like Jim said, it&#8217;s not her call. She shouldn&#8217;t have said that. It&#8217;s just arrogant to dictate our feelings to us.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m so tired of the &#8220;defend the term&#8221; argument. It&#8217;s a stupid one. Gays are going to call each other married whether its in the law or now, and the word will be &#8220;degraded&#8221; in meaning all the same. Government&#8217;s role is to protect TANGIBLE RIGHTS, not contemporary definitions of words.</p>
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		<title>By: henri lemonnier</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/09/29/15066/comment-page-1#comment-50604</link>
		<dc:creator>henri lemonnier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15066#comment-50604</guid>
		<description>I know that Meg Whitman is an intelligent woman, but it seems that she has trouble separating the concept of religious marriage from civil marriage.  Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion that a religious marriage should be between one man and one woman.  But asserting the same for civil marriage is advocating discrimination since it implies that same sex couples are not entitled to the same benefits as opposite sex couples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that Meg Whitman is an intelligent woman, but it seems that she has trouble separating the concept of religious marriage from civil marriage.  Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion that a religious marriage should be between one man and one woman.  But asserting the same for civil marriage is advocating discrimination since it implies that same sex couples are not entitled to the same benefits as opposite sex couples.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken in Riverside</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/09/29/15066/comment-page-1#comment-50603</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken in Riverside</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15066#comment-50603</guid>
		<description>The statement is the best we could expect from a serious GOP candidate.  What a pity.  I suppose even supporting the status-quo (opposite marriage + domestic partnerships) is an advancement in their platform.

After reading &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/07/16/DDR818MKSU.DTL&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article&lt;/a&gt;, her position seems to be pro-equality.  One might characterize it as &quot;government shouldn&#039;t be in the marriage business; domestic partnerships for all.&quot;  Which, as a thought experiment, is all fine and good. But since that&#039;s politically off the table, how is it not immediately obvious to her that separate-but-kind-of-equal is a slap in the face?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The statement is the best we could expect from a serious GOP candidate.  What a pity.  I suppose even supporting the status-quo (opposite marriage + domestic partnerships) is an advancement in their platform.</p>
<p>After reading <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/07/16/DDR818MKSU.DTL" rel="nofollow">this article</a>, her position seems to be pro-equality.  One might characterize it as &#8220;government shouldn&#8217;t be in the marriage business; domestic partnerships for all.&#8221;  Which, as a thought experiment, is all fine and good. But since that&#8217;s politically off the table, how is it not immediately obvious to her that separate-but-kind-of-equal is a slap in the face?</p>
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		<title>By: Lindoro Almaviva</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/09/29/15066/comment-page-1#comment-50599</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindoro Almaviva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15066#comment-50599</guid>
		<description>No it wasn&#039;t because the legislature sent him a bill for marriage equality before the Supreme court established marriage equality and way before prop H8. 

His reasoning for vetoing the bill was because he wanted the courts to decide the case; and then came Prop H8.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No it wasn&#8217;t because the legislature sent him a bill for marriage equality before the Supreme court established marriage equality and way before prop H8. </p>
<p>His reasoning for vetoing the bill was because he wanted the courts to decide the case; and then came Prop H8.</p>
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		<title>By: occono</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/09/29/15066/comment-page-1#comment-50596</link>
		<dc:creator>occono</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15066#comment-50596</guid>
		<description>Well that was in violation of Prop 22., Lindoro. The California Constitution states that Statutes that are passed by Ballot Initiative can&#039;t be overridden or nullified by the Legislature unless the Statute allows them to, which 22 didn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well that was in violation of Prop 22., Lindoro. The California Constitution states that Statutes that are passed by Ballot Initiative can&#8217;t be overridden or nullified by the Legislature unless the Statute allows them to, which 22 didn&#8217;t.</p>
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