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	<title>Comments on: I Don&#8217;t Wear Pajamas</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/12/15458/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/12/15458</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: tristram</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/12/15458/comment-page-1#comment-51389</link>
		<dc:creator>tristram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15458#comment-51389</guid>
		<description>&quot; And it remains to be seen what the march will actually achieve.&quot;

The March accomplished exactly what Cleve Jones intended. It took the focus off of Maine and Washington state and put it on him. So three weeks from now when Question 1 passes and Referendum 71 fails, I want to see (a) the actual text of Cleve&#039;s Magical Omnibus Federal Queer Equality Act, and (b) his schedule for getting it enacted. (&quot;Full equality now.&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; And it remains to be seen what the march will actually achieve.&#8221;</p>
<p>The March accomplished exactly what Cleve Jones intended. It took the focus off of Maine and Washington state and put it on him. So three weeks from now when Question 1 passes and Referendum 71 fails, I want to see (a) the actual text of Cleve&#8217;s Magical Omnibus Federal Queer Equality Act, and (b) his schedule for getting it enacted. (&#8221;Full equality now.&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: Vancity</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/12/15458/comment-page-1#comment-51354</link>
		<dc:creator>Vancity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15458#comment-51354</guid>
		<description>I suspect that the White House is waiting on repealing Don&#039;t Ask Don&#039;t Tell because

(a) they know that DADT is hugely unpopular with the general public, and

(b) they want to capitalize on the popularity boost that would assuredly ensue once the President signs the DADT repeal bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that the White House is waiting on repealing Don&#8217;t Ask Don&#8217;t Tell because</p>
<p>(a) they know that DADT is hugely unpopular with the general public, and</p>
<p>(b) they want to capitalize on the popularity boost that would assuredly ensue once the President signs the DADT repeal bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Garrett</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/12/15458/comment-page-1#comment-51352</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Garrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15458#comment-51352</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t trust the Park Service estimates of the crowd size.  They&#039;ve reliably low balled every gay rights march held in D.C.  I was there taking photos for Baltimore OUTLoud and that crowd looked to me easily in the same ballpark in terms of size with any of the larger marches and I&#039;ve been to them all.  I went wearing my faded button from the 1979 march.

As for Harwood&#039;s source, Digby is wondering if Harwood just made it up, saying that he has a habit of saying exactly the same thing in his own voice all the time.  The beauty of anonymous sources is they don&#039;t even have to exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t trust the Park Service estimates of the crowd size.  They&#8217;ve reliably low balled every gay rights march held in D.C.  I was there taking photos for Baltimore OUTLoud and that crowd looked to me easily in the same ballpark in terms of size with any of the larger marches and I&#8217;ve been to them all.  I went wearing my faded button from the 1979 march.</p>
<p>As for Harwood&#8217;s source, Digby is wondering if Harwood just made it up, saying that he has a habit of saying exactly the same thing in his own voice all the time.  The beauty of anonymous sources is they don&#8217;t even have to exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard W. Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/12/15458/comment-page-1#comment-51351</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard W. Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15458#comment-51351</guid>
		<description>To &#039;nak&#039; or Jim B: Is it possible to repost the comment or to post the link to the original article? I would appreciate having access for my own use. Thanks - rwf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To &#8216;nak&#8217; or Jim B: Is it possible to repost the comment or to post the link to the original article? I would appreciate having access for my own use. Thanks &#8211; rwf</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/12/15458/comment-page-1#comment-51349</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15458#comment-51349</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting that in spite of having to govern a &quot;closely divided country&quot; the Obama administration is able to find time and political capital for things like the war in Afghanistan, which is probably less popular than something like repealing DADT.

Which suggests to me that the administration has decided that:

1.  There isn&#039;t enough of a political advantage to bother making gay rights a priority, or

2.  The administration doesn&#039;t consider gay rights important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting that in spite of having to govern a &#8220;closely divided country&#8221; the Obama administration is able to find time and political capital for things like the war in Afghanistan, which is probably less popular than something like repealing DADT.</p>
<p>Which suggests to me that the administration has decided that:</p>
<p>1.  There isn&#8217;t enough of a political advantage to bother making gay rights a priority, or</p>
<p>2.  The administration doesn&#8217;t consider gay rights important.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard W. Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/12/15458/comment-page-1#comment-51346</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard W. Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15458#comment-51346</guid>
		<description>nak: Thanks for posting. BTB TOS does not allow me to respond to the allegations contained in that article. I will only say that until the RC church realizes that it no longer dictates the terms of a diverse social order and can separate its &#039;religious&#039; claims to civil and social justice, I will vehemently oppose the regurgitation of &#039;natural law&#039; expounded by these men in ecclesiastical drag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nak: Thanks for posting. BTB TOS does not allow me to respond to the allegations contained in that article. I will only say that until the RC church realizes that it no longer dictates the terms of a diverse social order and can separate its &#8216;religious&#8217; claims to civil and social justice, I will vehemently oppose the regurgitation of &#8216;natural law&#8217; expounded by these men in ecclesiastical drag.</p>
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		<title>By: nak</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/12/15458/comment-page-1#comment-51343</link>
		<dc:creator>nak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15458#comment-51343</guid>
		<description>Please read this article........

&lt;em&gt;[The remainder of this comment has been deleted due to violations to our &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/About/NoCrawl/CommentPolicy.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Comments Policy&lt;/a&gt;, specifically with regard to copyright violations. This means no reposting of someone else&#039;s material. Your writing must be your own, though you may quote selected short portions of speech by someone else. Reposting of entire posts or articles by another author is strictly forbidden.

This comment also violated our &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/About/NoCrawl/CommentPolicy.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Comments Policy&lt;/a&gt; for being off-topic -- Jim Burroway]&lt;/em&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please read this article&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p><em>[The remainder of this comment has been deleted due to violations to our <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/About/NoCrawl/CommentPolicy.htm" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">Comments Policy</a>, specifically with regard to copyright violations. This means no reposting of someone else's material. Your writing must be your own, though you may quote selected short portions of speech by someone else. Reposting of entire posts or articles by another author is strictly forbidden.</p>
<p>This comment also violated our <a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/About/NoCrawl/CommentPolicy.htm" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">Comments Policy</a> for being off-topic -- Jim Burroway]</em></p>
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		<title>By: grantdale</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/12/15458/comment-page-1#comment-51336</link>
		<dc:creator>grantdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15458#comment-51336</guid>
		<description>Personally, I have some of my finest thoughts in my dressing gown. Even so, very few bosses have been either understanding or accommodating over the years.

(Luckily we&#039;re on the Sandringham line, and the attire raises barely an indifferent eyebrow at any hour.)

Jim -- is this a post by a blogger complaining about an anonymous someone complaining about bloggers? No doubt  some blogger will have somehting to say about that, so be warned.

More seriously... --&gt;

&lt;i&gt;&quot;I do question the sincerity of people like the Reverend Martin Luther King&quot; Jerry Falwell 1965&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I have some of my finest thoughts in my dressing gown. Even so, very few bosses have been either understanding or accommodating over the years.</p>
<p>(Luckily we&#8217;re on the Sandringham line, and the attire raises barely an indifferent eyebrow at any hour.)</p>
<p>Jim &#8212; is this a post by a blogger complaining about an anonymous someone complaining about bloggers? No doubt  some blogger will have somehting to say about that, so be warned.</p>
<p>More seriously&#8230; &#8211;&gt;</p>
<p><i>&#8220;I do question the sincerity of people like the Reverend Martin Luther King&#8221; Jerry Falwell 1965</i></p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/12/15458/comment-page-1#comment-51334</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15458#comment-51334</guid>
		<description>To double up...

I think that I&#039;m detecting what may be at the heart of the President&#039;s lack of enthusiasm for championing and pushing our fight for equality.  Perhaps he, and his White House, perceive all gay people as part of the &quot;left&quot;.

And as long as he&#039;s focusing on issues of concern to the left - centralized heath care, executive salaries, etc. - then all gay people will see him as their hero even if he does nothing for them directly.

Perhaps he failed to notice that a quarter of gay Americans voted for John McCain or that even more may have voted for Obama because of his gay promises but are moderate to conservative on other issues.

Sadly, our most vocal leadership is quick to prop up the image of our community as lock-step ultra-liberals.  So there really is no reason for the President to differentiate between issues of importance to gay men and women and issues of importance to the &quot;left&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To double up&#8230;</p>
<p>I think that I&#8217;m detecting what may be at the heart of the President&#8217;s lack of enthusiasm for championing and pushing our fight for equality.  Perhaps he, and his White House, perceive all gay people as part of the &#8220;left&#8221;.</p>
<p>And as long as he&#8217;s focusing on issues of concern to the left &#8211; centralized heath care, executive salaries, etc. &#8211; then all gay people will see him as their hero even if he does nothing for them directly.</p>
<p>Perhaps he failed to notice that a quarter of gay Americans voted for John McCain or that even more may have voted for Obama because of his gay promises but are moderate to conservative on other issues.</p>
<p>Sadly, our most vocal leadership is quick to prop up the image of our community as lock-step ultra-liberals.  So there really is no reason for the President to differentiate between issues of importance to gay men and women and issues of importance to the &#8220;left&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/12/15458/comment-page-1#comment-51330</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15458#comment-51330</guid>
		<description>&quot;internet left fringe&quot; v. &quot;progressive online community&quot;

sigh

Just for the record (should anyone in the White House be reading) this site is neither &quot;left&quot; nor (that happy euphemism for left) &quot;progressive&quot;.

We are principled, moderate, honest, and watching.  Don&#039;t dismiss us - or most other gay sites - as ideologues driven by extremist agenda.  Our community is diverse and reflects a broad range of political position.  

And it is not just the &quot;left&quot; that supports equality.  Regularly we see more and more principled conservatives who find that laws that are applied differently based on orientation are a violation of their beliefs in individual rights and freedoms.

What we agree on - right, left, or center - is that all people are created equal and endowed with certain inalienable rights.  We believe in equality under the law.  We believe in a level playing field.  We believe in equal access.  We believe in blind justice.  We believe in being judged on our merits and our abilities.

And, unlike some (including the President on at least one issue), we don&#039;t make exceptions or lose our principles when it comes to equality for gay people.

It&#039;s not a right or left issue.  It&#039;s a decency, fairness, equality, and dammit American issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;internet left fringe&#8221; v. &#8220;progressive online community&#8221;</p>
<p>sigh</p>
<p>Just for the record (should anyone in the White House be reading) this site is neither &#8220;left&#8221; nor (that happy euphemism for left) &#8220;progressive&#8221;.</p>
<p>We are principled, moderate, honest, and watching.  Don&#8217;t dismiss us &#8211; or most other gay sites &#8211; as ideologues driven by extremist agenda.  Our community is diverse and reflects a broad range of political position.  </p>
<p>And it is not just the &#8220;left&#8221; that supports equality.  Regularly we see more and more principled conservatives who find that laws that are applied differently based on orientation are a violation of their beliefs in individual rights and freedoms.</p>
<p>What we agree on &#8211; right, left, or center &#8211; is that all people are created equal and endowed with certain inalienable rights.  We believe in equality under the law.  We believe in a level playing field.  We believe in equal access.  We believe in blind justice.  We believe in being judged on our merits and our abilities.</p>
<p>And, unlike some (including the President on at least one issue), we don&#8217;t make exceptions or lose our principles when it comes to equality for gay people.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a right or left issue.  It&#8217;s a decency, fairness, equality, and dammit American issue.</p>
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