Comments on: A Simple Anglican/Catholic Proposal

By: ravenbiker

ravenbiker — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:52:24 +0000

Birds of a feather, flock together. The Catholic Church deserves better than these foolish Anglicans.

By: Annie

Annie — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:08:54 +0000

Rite II of the BCP is based on the Novus Ordo. It’s already Catholic lite. I’m not entirely sure what a different structure would even look like. My other thought is that the Episcopal Church doesn’t have a lot of standards or consistency in terms of practice. Structures, provisions, rites…these things are best left to a church with some centralized authority. The Episcopal Church in the United States is not that kind of place. Anything like you’re suggesting would have to be on a local basis.

Lastly, the last sentence of the first paragraph is perhaps true in a general sense, but I don’t see here that you realize that the Vatican is responding to direct requests for union from specific disaffected Anglican groups. This is not, at root, some kind of desperate gambit by the Vatican to preemptively woo Anglicans.

By: Paul

Paul — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:47:07 +0000

It is amazing to me to see such desperate and hypocritical politics, all in the name of God. Shame, shame, shame.

By: Tom

Tom — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 00:50:56 +0000

You’re not very knowledgable of the Episcopalian church. I was raised “High Anglican” Episcopal – Latin Masses, Nuns, incense, the whole 9-yards of PRE Vatican II mass. Most Catholics would feel at home at my home church, especially Gay Catholics.

By: Glenn D

Glenn D — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:00:15 +0000

Several bloggers have also noted the remarkable timing of Pope Benedict’s offer to the Anglicans–that of the feast of St Paul of the Cross, founder of the Passionist Order.

The Catholic Encyclopedias entry on St Paul of the Cross explains how he prayed for over 50 years for the conversion and reconciliation of England, and he encouraged his spiritual sons to do the same.

Perhaps the timing of this offer by the Pope on St Paul of the Cross’ feast day was intentional, given Paul’s fervent desire for the reconciliation with the Church of England.

I wrote a brief article concerning St Paul of the Cross and his desire for the reunion of the Anglicans. For those interested it can be found here:
http://www.saintpaulofthecross.com/2009/10/rome-vatican-pope-reaches-out-to.html

Glenn D.

By: William

William — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:28:27 +0000

I’m still thinking about this. For years now I’ve hung on as a practising (albeit rebellious) Roman Catholic, despite the anti-gay pronouncements from the Vatican, about which I wrote twice to the present Pope when he was still Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, expressing my dissent in no uncertain terms.

If, however, the Roman Catholic Church really is now trying to recruit new members by advertising itself explicitly as a place of refuge for anti-gay Anglicans, then perhaps the time has finally come for me to take my leave.

By: Thom

Thom — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:17:57 +0000

Jim, I’m inclined to believe that this structure might be slightly different than the current “Anglican Use” arrangment. The majority of the “converts” will probably come from England, and most Anglo-Catholics in England don’t use the BCP, or don’t use the BCP only, but will also use the English Missal, or even sometimes the Roman Missal. So as far as the liturgy goes, I’m wondering exactly what we will get.

Nice post- great idea.

By: Jim Burroway

Jim Burroway — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:08:16 +0000

TerrenceWeidon,

Many of the issues you raise with regard to authority are valid concerns among conservative Anglicans. And not just authority, but finer points of theology as well. But the genius, if you can call it that, of the Vatican’s latest move is that Anglicans will not have to follow “Roman liturgical style,” as this structure explicitly sets aside parishes which will continue to follow the Anglican liturgy. Perhaps you missed that, but that was the whole point of this announcement.

By the way, they have had this option very quietly in the United States for 15 years or more. There are already Anglican rite Roman Catholic Churches today.

And of course, this builds on the fact that there are entire “sub-denominations,” if you will, if Eastern Rite Catholics, complete with the Eastern liturgies and practices which are very different from the Roman liturgy and practice, but under the authority of the Pope. So in that sense, this style of accomodation has been in existence for close to a thousand years since the Great Schism between the East and West.

By: Kay

Kay — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:34:48 +0000

I agree on the backfire possibility. IMO there is now no reason for the disgruntled Anglican conservatives to stay and throw a wrench in the works for those who wish to remain and progress as an inclusive community.

I think ol’ Pope Panzer did the COE and TEC a solid here.

By: TerenceWeldon

TerenceWeldon — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:21:20 +0000

I fully agree that this could easily backfire on the Vatican. Many of the most conservative Anglicans are as opposed to the Papacy and to Roman liturgical style as they are to women bishops and gay clergy. And even those who are more in sympathy with the Roman style, will not be happy to just knuckle down to Vatican-style top/down decision making.

There is more to this than just the recent events in the Episcopalian church. Behind the scenes, it has been a long time coming. It is entirely possible that this move, while initially suggesting a rightward drift for the Catholic Church, will in fact, open up a whole new sector of more outspoken internal critics.

Many actions have unintended consequences. It is still too soon to see clearly what will be the final outcome of this one.