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	<title>Comments on: Anti-Gay Activists React To Hate Crimes Bill Passage</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/23/15858/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/23/15858</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Wolf Lair</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/23/15858/comment-page-1#comment-64165</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolf Lair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 03:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15858#comment-64165</guid>
		<description>I wonder how often gays commit violent crimes against straights. Christians love to be bigots that&#039;s all it is. The world would be a better place without religion. Grow up now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how often gays commit violent crimes against straights. Christians love to be bigots that&#8217;s all it is. The world would be a better place without religion. Grow up now.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/23/15858/comment-page-1#comment-54964</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15858#comment-54964</guid>
		<description>Ben claims his &quot;freedoms&quot; are threatened if he doesn&#039;t have the right to create a hostile work environment by insulting gay co-workers.

Ben, that&#039;s a pretty pathetic complaint if that&#039;s the only &quot;freedom&quot; of yours that&#039;s threatened.  Gay people similarly don&#039;t have the &quot;freedom&quot; to create a hostile work enviornment by insulting religious people - its a standard we all have to live by in a just world.

Tell us Ben, if you deprive youself of the &quot;freedom&quot; to tell a newlywed lesbian that the happiest day of her life is &quot;bad stuff&quot;, just exactly how does that impact you in a negative way?
How does that change your day to day life?  Does it break your leg?  Does it pick your pocket?  Does it mean you can&#039;t pray whenever you feel like it?  Does it mean your children can&#039;t go to the private school of your choice?

NO.  If you deprive yourself of the &quot;right&quot; to insult gay people it has no conceivable impact on your freedom to do anything to pursue happiness as you see fit, unless your happiness is dependent on insulting and oppressing others who do you know harm.  If that&#039;s the case you are in desperate need of psychiatric help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben claims his &#8220;freedoms&#8221; are threatened if he doesn&#8217;t have the right to create a hostile work environment by insulting gay co-workers.</p>
<p>Ben, that&#8217;s a pretty pathetic complaint if that&#8217;s the only &#8220;freedom&#8221; of yours that&#8217;s threatened.  Gay people similarly don&#8217;t have the &#8220;freedom&#8221; to create a hostile work enviornment by insulting religious people &#8211; its a standard we all have to live by in a just world.</p>
<p>Tell us Ben, if you deprive youself of the &#8220;freedom&#8221; to tell a newlywed lesbian that the happiest day of her life is &#8220;bad stuff&#8221;, just exactly how does that impact you in a negative way?<br />
How does that change your day to day life?  Does it break your leg?  Does it pick your pocket?  Does it mean you can&#8217;t pray whenever you feel like it?  Does it mean your children can&#8217;t go to the private school of your choice?</p>
<p>NO.  If you deprive yourself of the &#8220;right&#8221; to insult gay people it has no conceivable impact on your freedom to do anything to pursue happiness as you see fit, unless your happiness is dependent on insulting and oppressing others who do you know harm.  If that&#8217;s the case you are in desperate need of psychiatric help.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/23/15858/comment-page-1#comment-54957</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15858#comment-54957</guid>
		<description>Ben,

The difference between bigotry and a principled position is that a principle applies to all.

If your objection to hate crimes legislation was the principled objection that it applies unequal punishment based on attitudes, beliefs, or thoughts, then that objection would apply to all hate crimes, be they based on religion, race or other attributes.  Such arguments have merit and, indeed, I too have concerns along that line.

But if, however, your objection is only to the inclusion of &quot;sodomites&quot; under hate crimes protections, then your arguments about the criminalization of thought is only a smoke screen and your real objection is to treating hate crimes against gay people on the same level as other hate crimes.  Such an argument is that anti-gay violent crime should be considered less of a crime than anti-Christian or anti-black violent crime. 

That is an argument for treating one class of people unequally based solely on animus towards that class of people.  That is the heart of bigotry.

From what I can tell, you object only to protections for gay people.  Thus you reveal your position to not be principled, but rather bigoted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben,</p>
<p>The difference between bigotry and a principled position is that a principle applies to all.</p>
<p>If your objection to hate crimes legislation was the principled objection that it applies unequal punishment based on attitudes, beliefs, or thoughts, then that objection would apply to all hate crimes, be they based on religion, race or other attributes.  Such arguments have merit and, indeed, I too have concerns along that line.</p>
<p>But if, however, your objection is only to the inclusion of &#8220;sodomites&#8221; under hate crimes protections, then your arguments about the criminalization of thought is only a smoke screen and your real objection is to treating hate crimes against gay people on the same level as other hate crimes.  Such an argument is that anti-gay violent crime should be considered less of a crime than anti-Christian or anti-black violent crime. </p>
<p>That is an argument for treating one class of people unequally based solely on animus towards that class of people.  That is the heart of bigotry.</p>
<p>From what I can tell, you object only to protections for gay people.  Thus you reveal your position to not be principled, but rather bigoted.</p>
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		<title>By: Désirée</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/23/15858/comment-page-1#comment-54927</link>
		<dc:creator>Désirée</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15858#comment-54927</guid>
		<description>criminalizing thought? huh?  Hate crime laws do not criminalize thought any more than distinctions between 1st and 2nd degree murder do.  In both cases, the victim is equally as dead, but the charges are different based on the *intent* (i.e. the thought) of the murderer.  When the *intent* is to terrorize a class/group of people, then yes, the punishment does need to be greater.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>criminalizing thought? huh?  Hate crime laws do not criminalize thought any more than distinctions between 1st and 2nd degree murder do.  In both cases, the victim is equally as dead, but the charges are different based on the *intent* (i.e. the thought) of the murderer.  When the *intent* is to terrorize a class/group of people, then yes, the punishment does need to be greater.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/23/15858/comment-page-1#comment-54917</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15858#comment-54917</guid>
		<description>I thought it was a safe assumption, Ben.  From my experience, only an anti-gay Christian would whine about hate crimes legislation with the level of ignorance you&#039;ve displayed, or refer to gay people as sodomites, or condescendingly put quotes around words like same-sex &quot;marriage,&quot; &quot;sexual orientation,&quot; and &quot;homophobia,&quot; or cite the case of Peter Vadala to pass him off as yet another poor, innocent victim of The Evil Gay Agenda.  Given your comments so far, I would be very surprised to learn that you have no affiliation whatsoever with Christianity.

And what&#039;s this about me being a domestic enemy?  Do you mean that I in particular am a domestic enemy?  Please explain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought it was a safe assumption, Ben.  From my experience, only an anti-gay Christian would whine about hate crimes legislation with the level of ignorance you&#8217;ve displayed, or refer to gay people as sodomites, or condescendingly put quotes around words like same-sex &#8220;marriage,&#8221; &#8220;sexual orientation,&#8221; and &#8220;homophobia,&#8221; or cite the case of Peter Vadala to pass him off as yet another poor, innocent victim of The Evil Gay Agenda.  Given your comments so far, I would be very surprised to learn that you have no affiliation whatsoever with Christianity.</p>
<p>And what&#8217;s this about me being a domestic enemy?  Do you mean that I in particular am a domestic enemy?  Please explain.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard W. Fitch</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/23/15858/comment-page-1#comment-54914</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard W. Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15858#comment-54914</guid>
		<description>No, Ben, there was no explicit assumption that you are a &#039;Christian&#039;; simply that, since religion is a mutable attribute, why should it be protected like race??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Ben, there was no explicit assumption that you are a &#8216;Christian&#8217;; simply that, since religion is a mutable attribute, why should it be protected like race??</p>
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		<title>By: Jason D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/23/15858/comment-page-1#comment-54913</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15858#comment-54913</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Yes, Peter was fired for his sincerely held religious belief.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Asserting something does not make it true.

He harassed another employee, as a management level employee he should&#039;ve known, and done better.  There is a line between simply stating an opinion and harassment, he crossed it -- in flagrant violation of their company policies.

He did not go to the police.

He did not go to the board of labor.

He didn&#039;t go to any sort of legal department.

Nope, he went to well-known, dyed-in-the -wool, lound-n-proud anti-gay activists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Yes, Peter was fired for his sincerely held religious belief.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Asserting something does not make it true.</p>
<p>He harassed another employee, as a management level employee he should&#8217;ve known, and done better.  There is a line between simply stating an opinion and harassment, he crossed it &#8212; in flagrant violation of their company policies.</p>
<p>He did not go to the police.</p>
<p>He did not go to the board of labor.</p>
<p>He didn&#8217;t go to any sort of legal department.</p>
<p>Nope, he went to well-known, dyed-in-the -wool, lound-n-proud anti-gay activists.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/23/15858/comment-page-1#comment-54911</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15858#comment-54911</guid>
		<description>Interesting how you assumed I&#039;m a Christian. Maybe I&#039;m a Jew. Maybe I&#039;m a secular humanist. Maybe I&#039;m just a civil libertarian who wants to protect the constitution from its enemies, foreign and dmoestic. (That&#039;s you--a domestic enemy). I never mentioned any religious affiliation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting how you assumed I&#8217;m a Christian. Maybe I&#8217;m a Jew. Maybe I&#8217;m a secular humanist. Maybe I&#8217;m just a civil libertarian who wants to protect the constitution from its enemies, foreign and dmoestic. (That&#8217;s you&#8211;a domestic enemy). I never mentioned any religious affiliation.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/23/15858/comment-page-1#comment-54909</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15858#comment-54909</guid>
		<description>Ben, if you dislike hate crimes legislation so much, then by all means, write to your congressman and say that you want Christians removed from the list of protected classes.

Also, get a grammar handbook because your spelling is atrocious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, if you dislike hate crimes legislation so much, then by all means, write to your congressman and say that you want Christians removed from the list of protected classes.</p>
<p>Also, get a grammar handbook because your spelling is atrocious.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily K</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/10/23/15858/comment-page-1#comment-54908</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=15858#comment-54908</guid>
		<description>Boy does Ben protest a lot. Methinks a bit TOO much...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy does Ben protest a lot. Methinks a bit TOO much&#8230;</p>
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